Best way to reduce the "bounciness" during highway driving.

[Kazz]

If your roads are at all rough and you're looking for a nicer ride, DO NOT go coilovers. You'll feel every bump and every road imperfection. If all you want to do is deal with the bounciness of the suspension, do the Konis. Springs will not help with the bounciness, either.

I get you want lower, cooler looking. But that comes with sacrificing ride comfort. Period.

 

[Jesse]

I noticed a big improvement when I switch to BIlstein coilovers... Really happy with them on Track as well!

 

[OffTheWall503]

Going down to 16" wheels helped because I can use a 50 series tire, but putting the lowering springs on negated that so basically I'm back to square 1 and it rides nearly like stock again.

I may try to upgrade the shocks/struts to Bilsteins in 2017.

 

[A7xogg]

Depends on how bad the road is. Some roads make coilovers overs ride worse than stock while different roads flip the comfort

 

[StayPuft]

I noticed a big improvement when I switch to BIlstein coilovers... Really happy with them on Track as well!

Seconded.

After I switched to Bilstein coilovers and 15" wheels the ride was transformed and the resonance bouncing was gone. So smooth on the highway but still sporty. More supple than firm. Coilovers and stock wheels was good too.

With stock suspension and 15" winter wheels I have the bounciness but not as bad as stock.

 

[MeisterR]

There are 2 version of bounciness, one is lack of rebound force, the other is too much compression force.

From what I see from feedback, I would guess that the OEM setup have too much compression force.
Basically, in order to create "response", ford have valved the damper not to move until it get sufficient pressure in order for the car to "rotate".
The down side of that is as the OP say, when you are driving on freeway where you want comfort and not response, you end up feeling every bump and create this "choppy bounce" over long continuous uneven road surfaces.

So the springs isn't going to fix this issue, because it is in the damper.
Putting on thicker tires may help, but again, it isn't fixing the issue.

A damper that have a lower compression force will help take out this uncomfortable bounce.
And if you really want the best of both world, you want an adjustable damper that have a compression and rebound combined adjustment.
Normally this is what you will find in an adjustable mono-tube dampers, so the MeisterR ZetaCRD as well as the Bilstein B16 both will do that.
This way you can setup a softer setup for the road, and have a stiffer setup if you prefer the car to rotate more.

I couldn't think of any adjustable mono-tube OEM replacement damper available on the market.
Most dampers such as Koni, KYB, etc are all twin-tube dampers and therefore are rebound adjustable only...
It may work, but really couldn't provide the flexibility or performance of a good mono-tube damper.

Hope that helps.

Jerrick

 

[neeqness]

I think the progressive springs can fix the issue but it mainly depends how bumpy the roads are in your area. I used the Eibach springs on the freeway with oem shocks out in the suburbs where the roads are well taken care of and more of a lumpy texture rather than potholes, large bumps, and extremely uneven pavement with a significant improvement on the ride - it felt great. But once I hit the city with all the potholes, etc. and it was quite uncomfortable.

My budget was low so coilovers were out the question. I bought some aftermarket springs and koni struts. The konis with aftermarket springs (Eibach) were a bit too soft and "floaty" together and seemed to bottom out on large bumps but after experimenting a bit with them all I found that the konis (orange) with oem springs worked best for me in the city. If I lived in the burbs though, I'd switch back to the springs with oem struts in a heartbeat! I'm not really a track kind of guy but that setup nearly inspired me to give it a go!

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[Siestarider]

The stock suspension so inspired me to go to track to explore the car's capability and my own that I stayed on it for 3 years and 20+ trackdays.

My first Sebring log notes say I would not want stiffer suspension for that track. I learned a lot since. My opinion is stock is overdamped. This is less a problem on track than on street.

Now I have coilovers that are fantastic on street, although it has taken 3 months of playing with ride height and damper settings to find that spot where I finally don't want to change anything.

Next trip to track, that will all change as best track settings are sure to be different. My hope is that I can find a setup that feels great on track. If its possible to have the best of both with just a little knob twiddling, I am all for it.

P.S. I suspect tracking costs more than golf on a daily basis but I am pretty sure its cheaper by the year. And a hell of a lot more fun. Besides, anyone can play golf.

 

[MeisterR]

Now I have coilovers that are fantastic on street, although it has taken 3 months of playing with ride height and damper settings to find that spot where I finally don't want to change anything.

Next trip to track, that will all change as best track settings are sure to be different. My hope is that I can find a setup that feels great on track. If its possible to have the best of both with just a little knob twiddling, I am all for it.

Have you got a setting you like on the street with the MeisterR GT1 now?
Where did you end up on the damping adjustment?
Did you change the springs rate?

The idea of a good adjustable damper is allow you to hit the track and shift your focus on track use.
So go up on the damping and really push those tires hard to get them to heat and make grip.

When is your next track day?

Jerrick

 

[GAbOS]

I will chime in here because I have noticed this since I got the car. This is not referring to road surface nor to a harsh ride. These things I expect from this car.

In certain situations and speeds, the car will oscillate front to rear. My brain immediately blames incorrect damper rates paired with the OEM springs. I would love for someone with more skill than I be able to match up either aftermarket dampers to OE springs or visa versa, aftermarket springs that work best with OE damper rates.

 

[Siestarider]

Have you got a setting you like on the street with the MeisterR GT1 now?
Where did you end up on the damping adjustment?
Did you change the springs rate?

The idea of a good adjustable damper is allow you to hit the track and shift your focus on track use.
So go up on the damping and really push those tires hard to get them to heat and make grip.

When is your next track day?

Jerrick

I am running fronts 4 clicks from soft and rears 2 clicks from soft on your 5/3 springs. Ride height is now lowered 1.1" from stock in front and 0.9" rear. Feels great on street.

Now for an alignment check asap, then to track in January. I have several choices, will probably run PBIR first because its close and I can run a couple hot laps, pit for damper changes and return for couple more hot laps before session is over.

My thought for track is to start with dampers set in the middle and work toward soft. For benefit of readers, these dampers are valved for 6/4 springs, so I do not anticipate going harder than halfway with the 5/3 springs.

Jerrick, feel free to recommend a different start and progression process, you know your dampers better than I.

I am shooting for a track setting I like and then run for a PB using same tires and other mods as on OEM suspension, hope to find objective proof the coils offer a better lap time.

I tend to overdrive my tires so getting heat into them has not been a problem in the past.

 

[MeisterR]

I will chime in here because I have noticed this since I got the car. This is not referring to road surface nor to a harsh ride. These things I expect from this car.

In certain situations and speeds, the car will oscillate front to rear. My brain immediately blames incorrect damper rates paired with the OEM springs. I would love for someone with more skill than I be able to match up either aftermarket dampers to OE springs or visa versa, aftermarket springs that work best with OE damper rates.

That is the difficult thing to do, because you immediately are trying to make compromises to a package that is already compromised.

Changing springs rate to match OE dampers:
The issue here is the OE dampers isn't really miss matched, but more of the "style" isn't quite right.
Ford use a very motorsport style of damper valving as I said above, and while this give the "rotation" to the rear, it also makes it harsh over bumps.
The reason for that is because the damper is "stopping" the suspension from moving when hitting those smaller bumps.
So changing springs rate isn't going to help, because the springs is fine in terms of ride, it is the damper that is at fault.

Changing dampers to match OE rate
That can be easily done, but the questions is why?
Because the OE springs are soft, and a stiffer springs rate will help control body motion.
The ride wouldn't be harsh if the damper are specs with the correct style and to the correct figures, especially if it is an adjustable unit.
So there really isn't a reason to make a damper to work with the OE rate because your damper figure will now be limited by the OE springs rate.

Unless there is a very good reason for this such as to meet regulation of a specific racing class (such as Auto-X), it doesn't make good sense to do so as you end up spending a lot more time for an inferior performing product.
Must easier, cost effective, and better performance to go to a completely new setup with new springs rate as well as matching dampers.

Just thought I give my thought on this, because it is a questions we get asked a lot especially with the Miata group as some of the OE Bilstein on the older NA are down right horrible on bumpy uneven back roads.

Jerrick

 

[MeisterR]

I am running fronts 4 clicks from soft and rears 2 clicks from soft on your 5/3 springs. Ride height is now lowered 1.1" from stock in front and 0.9" rear. Feels great on street.

Now for an alignment check asap, then to track in January. I have several choices, will probably run PBIR first because its close and I can run a couple hot laps, pit for damper changes and return for couple more hot laps before session is over.

My thought for track is to start with dampers set in the middle and work toward soft. For benefit of readers, these dampers are valved for 6/4 springs, so I do not anticipate going harder than halfway with the 5/3 springs.

Jerrick, feel free to recommend a different start and progression process, you know your dampers better than I.

I am shooting for a track setting I like and then run for a PB using same tires and other mods as on OEM suspension, hope to find objective proof the coils offer a better lap time.

I tend to overdrive my tires so getting heat into them has not been a problem in the past.

I would say on your first lap out, go straight to -5 front and rear from full stiff.
See that that goes.

When you work from soft to hard, sometime you never get to the part of the dampers that is the "sweet spot"
I will start higher, and if the car feel twitchy and you want to get the car to "settle down more", then you can soften it.
If the car feels good, then go a little higher to see if it feels any better... and if it doesn't, back it down and you will be in the "range' of adjustment that you are comfortable with.

Looking forward to hear some reviews.

Jerrick

 

[GAbOS]

Thanks for the reply! I hang around too many amateur race drivers in various disciplines so am used to hearing about revealed or shortened dampers. Much easier on my older BMW that has loads of proven options.

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[Siestarider]

Thanks Jerrick, I will test as you recommend and post findings when I have some. Probably in a different thread, we accidentally hijacked this one from street to track. Or maybe expanded it, most Fist owners like knowing they can track OEM even if they don't.

 

[milkman42]

I will chime in here because I have noticed this since I got the car. This is not referring to road surface nor to a harsh ride. These things I expect from this car.

In certain situations and speeds, the car will oscillate front to rear. My brain immediately blames incorrect damper rates paired with the OEM springs. I would love for someone with more skill than I be able to match up either aftermarket dampers to OE springs or visa versa, aftermarket springs that work best with OE damper rates.

i noticed the same phenomenon you described. i think it might be due to the short wheelbase? I have MeisterR ZRD+ coils set to -11/-13 from full hard and still have the oscillation. the ride is much improved though, especially on the highway. i'm still messing with the settings but i think i'm getting close to the sweet spot for handling/comfort balance. i started at -8/-10 and it was similar to stock as far as comfort goes (although my memory of stock is pretty faded now).

 

[GAbOS]

98" wheelbase versus 101" on my BMW and it doesn't do it on HR Race springs with custom vavled Billy dampers. The BMW is near SpecE30 so it will rattle your teeth. lol

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[MeisterR]

i noticed the same phenomenon you described. i think it might be due to the short wheelbase? I have MeisterR ZRD+ coils set to -11/-13 from full hard and still have the oscillation. the ride is much improved though, especially on the highway. i'm still messing with the settings but i think i'm getting close to the sweet spot for handling/comfort balance. i started at -8/-10 and it was similar to stock as far as comfort goes (although my memory of stock is pretty faded now).

You have a lot more adjustment range.
Keep going down until you find what you find as a good compromise with comfort and response.
Everyone is different, and that is why the damping adjustment is very important because you can dial the suspension to YOUR personal preference.

Jerrick

 

[RAAMaudio]

Great questions and advice from those in the know and some well meaning but not quite in the know arena as well.

My experience leads me to post a few observations worked out over a very long time of playing around with suspensions though I still seek expert advice regularly of course, nobody knows it all

On this car:

1) Dampers and spring setup for lively handling but not great in daily driving and a bit soft in spring rate.
2) 17" heavy wheels resulting in very short sidewalls and higher levels of energy for the suspension to deal with.
3) Budget, they could of done much better without a big investment at their level of purchasing power.

In general:
1) Better spring to damper rates with stiffer springs can work incredibly well in more situations.
2) Linear springs are better for handling, progressive springs are for ride and not bottoming out, when they compress to a point they suddenly get to stiff, not a good thing.
3) Lighter weight wheels will improve all aspects of handling, ride comfort, noise induced and cause less wear on the whole chassis, a bit less turn in feel can easily be surpassed in real performance gain due to increased grip in most if not all situations.

Experience on this car with BC coilovers:
1) "race springs" originally used, 5/4k rates, rears were progressive and allowed the car to hit pretty hard over freeway overpasses and other large changes at speed, the rest of the time worked great and even helped rotate the car jumping curbs on track at far higher speeds than anyone should attempt on public roads.
2) 8/7k Swift spring upgrade with linear rears, actually rides better most of the time and takes those overpasses much smoother but we sure do feel them, hugely better than stock ride.
3) I might of been better to try 8/6 or even 9/7 rates but overall very pleased with the 8/7s and they will be better on track and require less curb pounding(which is a bit sad as love to jump them
4) 17 OEM wheels are simply to heavy for the car but 17" 16.8 lb wheels with Mich PS3/A/S tires still rode like a brick and very noisy.
5) 15" wheels with summer, all season and track setups all ride hugely better, far quieter, far more grip, less cost though I would of likely ran 16x8 wheels if they were available for less than crazy prices.

Budget minded priority list:
1) A bit of a toss up, better dampers or lighter 15 or 16" wheels and tires, dampers cost less so might try them first.
2) Whatever I did not do first above.
3) Both of the above.
4) Coilovers and wheels and tires.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Does most of this "bounciness", or oscillation most are describing (my son REALLY notices it when riding in the passenger seat of my car on the highway-I do NOT!?) come from the rear factory spring/damper setup, the fronts, or completely EQUALLY from BOTH??

I ask, because I was thinking about just changing out the rear dampers to Koni Sport yellows for now (fairly inexpensive, and easy to do by myself in a garage), and then upgrading later on to the front Sports, hopefully with (by that time) a Ground Control coil over conversion kit over them.