Trade the FiST for a Toyobaru?

[OCDFist]

I've always wanted to check out the "driver's car twins (FRS/BRZ), figured they'd be down on torque, but maybe fun to daily drive as I don't need the turbo power 24/7 (it sure is nice knowing it's there, though). I drove a '13 MT w/44,000 miles this weekend. It had no engine soul compared to my car (mods in my sig, it runs well). The FRS is swoopy, cozy, & zippy in the corners, but I just can't convince myself that it's a good idea. Not that I'm bored, but A.D.D. is kicking in.

I planned on getting the X37 soon, and I'd be totally happy with the Fist, everything. Since TUNE+ isn't carrying the X37, the options are a Cyborg or more money on a DHM kit. My car is very clean, no dings or dents, has navigation & Recaros, so it's nice for an econo hatch. They're offering me $14,300 for mine (28,000 miles, I still owe about $14k) and $14,800 for their FRS (small dealer). Their car isn't perfect, but still in great shape. Had I driven the FRS instead the FiST after my Scion xA was totaled, I wouldn't even be on this site. However, I drove the FiST and the rest is turbo history.

FRS/BRZ boards say go Toyobaru, FiST boards say go Ford. Even though it's "just a Fiesta", it does everything pretty well driving to work & stuff. I have a baby seat in the back for my grandson, but my 16 yr old son doesn't ride in the back much anymore, so two doors isn't too scary. Am I crazy to consider the trade?

 

[Hijinx]

You're not crazy. It's your prerogative. If you enjoyed the drive, and like the car enough, go for it. As a bit of advice, I suggest a weeks wait. The thought of a new car is very exciting, and I've learned throughout the years that sometimes it's just a feeling, instead of something you actually want to do. So, give it a week or so, test drive it once more. Sit on it for another week to let the dust settle. There will always be another BRZ/FRS to be had, as there will be another FiST to be had. Just don't make the decision on a whim.


Some Guy On The Internet

 

[Zormecteon]

Take into consideration the cost of parts and labor for maintainence and repair, and how likely each of those is to be needed on each car. Of course if cost isn't a consideration, do what makes you happy. Hell, do what makes you happy anyway. They're both considered to be great drivers's cars.

 

[Jesse]

I had a FR-S for a couple years before I had to sell it for a 4 door (CTS-V) hated the cts-v so I sold it and got a FiST. While the FiST is a great alternative, if you want a "driving" car the frs/brz/86 is the way to go... They handle better, have a lot more room for mods. I bought my FR-S New for 24k out the door, I had mine supercharged and some suspension work, wheels, full exhaust e85, made 315 whp and I'll tell you what there was very few cars I've drive that I liked more. (Those cars retain value a lot better than FiST too - Sold mine for more than I paid for it brand new)

If I could do it again I would buy a BRZ (like the look more) and turbo instead of supercharged, and I would have bought something cheap like a CRV to have extra doors for my kids. Don't get me wrong the FiST is a lot of fun, just not as comparable as some might think. only reason IMO to choose FiST over FR-S is 4 door needs vs 2 door wants.

 

[2006ser]

Get a 5.0 and call it a day

 

[sunnyd]

I've always wanted to check out the "driver's car twins (FRS/BRZ), figured they'd be down on torque, but maybe fun to daily drive as I don't need the turbo power 24/7 (it sure is nice knowing it's there, though).

That's funny, I'm the exact opposite. I feel like I'd rather have a car with more torque for daily driving than having to rev the snot out of my car just to keep up with traffic. This is part of the reason why I sold my old e92 M3 for the FiST.

 

[Accel Junky]

I think you'll get bored with the GT/BRZ unless you do a lot of track days at tight tracks. You'd have to spend big bucks (forced induction) to get any real power out of it. The FiST to me is a far superior daily driver. It's easily moddable, the torque and short gearing make it a blast on the street, and it has some practicality with the 4 doors.

I borrowed a colleague's FRS for a day and while it is super nimble (maybe a little too tail happy...), I didn't care for the interior/visibility and you do have to rag it out to go fast and it is underpowered.

 

[pinchvalve]

I love the FiST (obviously) but as performance grows, there is no getting around FWD, 4 doors and a taller COG. The twins are a wet dream of handling potential, their Center of Gravity is 18 inches, lower than a Cayman! Slap some 200-treadwear tires on a stock FR/S and see what you think, they can handle like you can't believe. With some camber bolts and an aggressive alignment, I have seen them spank Corvettes and Evos at the autocross. As a daily driver, I still like the FiST, but as a track weapon, the twins have more ultimate potential.

 

[zanethan]

I wouldn't do it. I've never driven the brz/frs/86 and I've heard mixed reviews of them but my opinion has nothing to do with how they drive, it's a logistical issue.

Given the performance orientation of the both the FiST and brz/frs it's safe to assume that any used example has been beaten on throughout its life. It's what the cars were built for and why we love them but its also a huge question mark when buying used. I assume you bought the FiST new and as such you know EXACTLY how those 28,000 miles were put on the vehicle. Again, I'm sure not all of them were easygoing miles but you know how you maintained your vehicle after beating on it. You know NOTHING about how the brz/frs was maintained and how those 44,000 miles were accrued. Yes the brz/frs is built by Toyota/Subaru who rank near the top in terms of reliability but in my mind I will always take what I know over what I don't. Also the fact that you say the brz/frs isn't perfect is an indicator that it might have not been cared for in the best possible manner, it might have been but whoever owned it last didn't care about it enough to address whatever issues you noticed on it, just food for thought.

Additionally, you're going to be opening up a new loan for $500 more but on a car that is older and with about 57% more miles on it. This doesn't make much fiscal sense, especially considering your FiST should still be under warranty at 28,000 miles. I know you have mods and some items have definitely been voided but you are still covered on some items if something were to break.

I've been burned before on a similar situation to what you're propositioning. I traded in a '13 Taurus SHO with 36,000 miles for a '12 Buick Regal GS with 45,000 miles because I wanted a manual gearbox again. I assumed that the Buick had been well maintained, it was offered as certified pre-owned and I thought nothing of it. Flash forward a few months and the Buick is basically falling apart and making all kinds of odd noises. My wife and I unloaded it before something catastrophic broke leaving us with a several thousand dollar repair bill. I'm also not dissing used cars, I bought my FiST used (granted it only had 600 miles on it), but you have to be careful with used performance vehicles and what your considering doing is risky in my opinion. If the brz/frs had the same miles as your FiST or less it would be less of a risk but I just don't see it ending well in your favor given the mileage discrepancy.

 

[Xxyion]

You could be like me and just get both! =D

On a more serious note, as an owner of both i'll give you my run down.

For Daily Driving:
The FiST is better. It's more comfortable, the suspension is lighter, seats are better, has more torque to pass people on the freeway and the economy is better. Not to mention it has 4 doors and a real trunk.

For Spirited Driving:
The 86 is by far superior. (of course all opinion). The steering is tighter and more responsive (no electronic steering), the suspension is stiffer and the car LOVES being in high RPMS as thats where all the power is.

Aftermarket:
86 is considerably better as more companies make aftermarket parts for this platform compared to the FiST.

A few things mentioned above. The FRS/BRZ is a platform very similar to the old Civics and Integra's of the 90's. You have NO IDEA how well the last person treated it. You also have no idea what mods were put on the car. These cars can look modded to the teeth but can revert back to stock incredibly easily to hide the amount of stress the car has gone through. Majority of owners probably track this car, and the rest love taking these out on spirited runs if they can.

In the end if you are trading used for used...i dont really recommend it. While i LOVE my BRZ...and way more so than my FiST. I am very glad that i bought it new.

A lot of people complain about the twins being underpowered. Honestly a lot of it comes down to what you want to do with it. Trying to win some drag races? Oh yeah not gonna beat anyone there. Trying to Auto X or take it in a canyon run? More power would kill you. The nice thing about the FiST is that since it's already a turbo built motor, upgrading the turbo doesnt hit the reliability as hard as adding boost to a twin. Remember these are completley NA and are built as such.

In the end though its up to you.

 

[ZREXER]

The only one that needs to happy is you. BRZ/FRS are great cars, but I am sure you will miss that mid range power from the turbo FiST.

 

[Xxyion]

The only one that needs to happy is you. BRZ/FRS are great cars, but I am sure you will miss that mid range power from the turbo FiST.

Yeah this is important. All the power in the twin is above 4500 RPM and you gotta hold it there to really take advantage of it. In the FiST it's around 3-4k which a lot more usable and more fun for a daily driver.

 

[coastertrav]

I've had both and have to agree with both sets of forums. It is not an easy choice at all.

I honestly don't think you can go wrong with either. My FRS was lightly modded (springs, tune, UEL exhaust) and it was a blast to drive and sounded great. I love my FiST (completely stock) and think it is a better car for pushing on the street as you are less likely to end up crossed up and backwards off the road, and the down low grunt is great for traffic.

I honestly wish I was more help. The cars are completely different, but I don't think you would be disappointed with either.

The FRS was great though, but know that the rear seats are useless and you are not making any big Home Depot runs or Craigslist purchases in it.

 

[OCDFist]

Thanks for the advice everybody!

I have a weekend truck, so I don't put anything in the FiST that doesn't belong in there lol. After thinking about it all night, driving my car today, and not getting a "yes" from the dealer to buy the FRS at $13,500 vs $14,500, I'll most likely stay in the Fiesta.

I was trying to talk myself into less torque. It would need exhaust, intake, tune, lightweight pulley, E40, & lightweight wheels to be fun for me. A 2nd gear blast today reminded me why I love the FiST. Spins the tires from 2000 rpm and pulls smooth to 6500. If the dealer is willing to go low on the FRS, I'll be torn, but I'll wonder as well why it's not selling. FRS blue isn't as good as Performance blue, anyway.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^The Scoobie NA boxer in those has such sky high compression that it shows gains from an E40 tune?

 

[alphanumeric]

I think the BRZ looks so much better than the FiST and the after market is glorious...that said it's so damn expensive to modify that thing. Plus with my coilovers and c39 they can't hang on the track

 

[frankiefiesta]

[MENTION=2294]OCDFist[/MENTION] you can still buy the x37 directly from pumaspeed. If you need help getting in contact with the right people let me know I can get you the email

 

[Silo]

I think the vehicle needs to be chosen that best fits your driving style.

I live in the Midwest where the roads are flat and straight; torque is king. I test drove a BRZ before buying my Fiesta, and would have easily bought the BRZ if it wasn't for the motor. The twins have a much more capable chassis with a heavy emphasis on the chassis dynamics. The FiST has a less capable chassis with a more tractable motor. I still think about picking up an FRS/BRZ but always remind myself that without forced induction those cars would not be a fun car to daily drive in my area.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I would not expect ANY FWD car (even a 'perfectly' setup one) to be as 'capable', or have 'chassis dynamics' as good as a properly engineered RWD car, so I have no clue as to WHY everyone is comparing them as if they were the same thing.

As far as the former goes, our rides seem to be one of the best out there, no?

 

[Jesse]

I saw some misinformation in a few posts not that it matters as it seems you made up your mind but...

FRS can run full e85 with nothing but a tune and get almost 200 whp... Cheapest way to get power was a Header and EcuTek W/e85 tune and some people were achieving the same results as a stock setup supercharger kit.

FR-S do have electric steering (and its fan-freaking-tastic) (FiST isn't bad steering though just not quite as perfected as the FR-S)

FR-S handles boost amazing, and saying that a engine is built for turbo or non turbo doesn't quite cut it. It's all a numbers game, you can have low compression and a high psi turbo to "boost" up the effective CR or have a high compression ratio with low boost to get the same effect. But when you turbo a higher compression ratio engine you just get gobs of power and can still maintain really good mpg's staying out of the throttle. As long as you tune safely and run lower psi one isn't more reliable than the other. My supercharged FR-S only needed 12psi to get 315 to the wheels, and my FiST needs 25psi to get 250 to the wheels... It's all about pressure.

You get all the great benefits of direction injection with both cars, but with the FR-S you get all the easy upgrade-able port injectors that also help clean the valves and easy to upgrade to larger SC/Turbo setups.

It's all a matter of opinion in either case, but if you don't need 4 door it's a pretty easy choice IMO.

If I didn't need 4 door I'd be back to the Twins.