Track Coilovers

[spoon]

MeisterR is the company. If you're asking where they are manufactured, I don't have an answer to that question.

Sorry! Never heard of them in my life until now, so I was curious if these are units made in-house by MeisterR, or if they farm out production to some other suspension company, paint them, assemble them, and rebrand them MeisterR. These are awfully affordable for the touted performance benefits, and so for this reason I would like to find out as much about them as I can. Just want to know how they keep their costs low.

 

[parapraxis24]

Sorry! Never heard of them in my life until now, so I was curious if these are units made in-house by MeisterR, or if they farm out production to some other suspension company, paint them, assemble them, and rebrand them MeisterR. These are awfully affordable for the touted performance benefits, and so for this reason I would like to find out as much about them as I can. Just want to know how they keep their costs low.

Of course I don't know the full story, but I believe it was only recently that they opened a shop in the US, and originating in the UK so that is likely why they don't have a large market share on this side of the pond. They were good enough for Miata drivers so they were good enough for me, and the price is hard to beat as well. I can't imagine for the price point that you'll find coilovers at this level of performance.

 

[Plainrt]

Who makes Meister?

Prob same place in China that makes all the other budget coilovers.

 

[KKaWing]

Looks like they use Taiwanese hardware for the CRD+, but they have their own damping rather than the off the shelf stuff from BC/Megan. The GT1's they make their own pistons in the UK.

 

[M-Sport fan]

The GT1's they make their own pistons in the UK.

Are you sure about the above??

IF so, that would encourage me to consider them, despite the single adjustment factor, since this, combined with a Taiwan build (vs. mainland China), would instill enough confidence in their build for me to accept, possibly.

 

[KKaWing]

Yes, they make them with a triple bypass valve. Their main competition is the ohlins Road and track with their dual bypass. The piston is warranty for life I think. [MENTION=4680]MeisterR[/MENTION] for more info. A member of the the Facebook club claims the comfort and performance of a kW v3 with these gt1.

They're the closest thing we can get to a set of ohlins road and track for this platform.

If you want to go super spendy, motion control suspension has a one way adjustable coil listed... Doesn't come with top hats or springs so better lube your wallet if you want to go that way.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Thanks, but IF I ever could go "super spendy" it would be for top quality individually adjustable 3 WAY dampers.

 

[KKaWing]

http://motioncontrolsuspension.com/3w/ $5900 for the Fiesta

 

[Siestarider]

Black Art Designs Ltd is affiliated with Meister in some capacity. When we were discussing my dampers, Jared commented that BAD does his valving and testing. Another UK firm.

 

[M-Sport fan]

http://motioncontrolsuspension.com/3w/ $5900 for the Fiesta

Actually not too bad when you consider that some of the 3 or 4 way adjustables from Penske are that much EACH damper!!

 

[Crooked Letta]

Actually not too bad when you consider that some of the 3 or 4 way adjustables from Penske are that much EACH damper!!

Yea MCS is no joke and pretty competitive considering the competition they go against. Last time I checked though I didn't think Penske's were going for that much, up to 2500-3000 per damper.

 

[MeisterR]

Are you sure about the above??

IF so, that would encourage me to consider them, despite the single adjustment factor, since this, combined with a Taiwan build (vs. mainland China), would instill enough confidence in their build for me to accept, possibly.

The GT1 "techncially" speaking could be classified "made in UK" if we really want to.
But as the GT1 for the USA market will be assembled in our USA workshop, we don't want to get it all confusing.
That is why we use the "Engineered in UK" mark, because all of our products are Engineered in house.

Our locking collar for example are engineered by us, and have a UK patent pending status.
No one else will use the same collar design, we didn't just took something off the shelf.
Our CRD valving for our ZetaCRD are also engineered in house, so it is different from anyone else on the market.

As far as the GT1 goes, the internal pistons, the full metal jacket polyurethane shaft seal, all the internal bronze impregnated PTFE glide rings, are all CNC in house at our UK workshop.
The were all design, engineered, manufactured, and assembled there under one roof.
We have 3 CNC machine in house.

^^^Thanks, but IF I ever could go "super spendy" it would be for top quality individually adjustable 3 WAY dampers.

If you are super spendy, we certainly can build a individually adjustable 3-way suspension for you.
The sky is the limit with it comes to custom build, we have done everything from rally cars to a titanium nitrate coated damper rod because customer requested for a "gold" color damper shaft.

Black Art Designs Ltd is affiliated with Meister in some capacity. When we were discussing my dampers, Jared commented that BAD does his valving and testing. Another UK firm.

Black Art Design is our in house technical partner.
Basically we are all under one roof, if there are anything really technical we need, we literally just yell across the room.

Jerrick

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Thanks, good to know!

Just how much more (percentage wise) would you have to charge IF even the bodies/mounts/brakets/etc. were made either here, or in Jolly 'Ol England, instead of Taiwan?

 

[MeisterR]

It's my understanding that they are much more geared towards hard core open track/road course use, and are custom valved to higher spring rates for that use, than the more street friendly Rs.

I still wish that there was a more affordable 2, or better yet 3 way adjustable coil over for these cars (BESIDES the KW V3s, or lower level Ohlins coil overs).
The Meister GT1s are at the same price point as the above mentioned 2 ways, despite being 'all in one' single adjustables, and being praised for this fact by the manufacturer producing them.

Also want to bring this up.

The GT1 isn't really "geared" toward anything, it is a custom build unit.
What it can do is because of the advanced internal, you can do "EVERYTHING" better.

That mean on the road, it will be more comfortable as it will handle small vibration better.
On the bumpy road / track, it will be more responsive as it will not get upset by bumps even if you hit them at the apex.
On the track, it will be more consistent because of the internal design, you can throw loads of abuse at them and it won't fade from heat at all.

The thing is higher springs rate don't necessary mean better performance.
We work with loads of clubman race driver who all think that stiffer is better.
But when we start working out the numbers, they all when faster with a softer but "correct" springs rate.

As far as 1-way vs. 2-way, my opinion is always going to be 1-way unless you know exactly what you are doing and every adjustment figure are.
The reason for that is you have to maintain a good damping ratio between compression and rebound adjustment, and unless you have the numbers you are adjusting blind.
I have had race car come in and they are racing on all singing and dancing 3-way adjustable dampers.
When we put their damper with their setting on the dyno, it is all over the place with damping ratio no where near what it needs to be.

Remember, a suspension will only perform as well as it's setting.
You can have the best suspension in the world with the wrong setting, and watch it get out perform by some basic Chinese made suspension with the right setting.
Knowing WHAT to build in a suspension is as important if not more important than HOW to build a suspension.

Also, remember that KW is a twin-tube damper.
Where MeisterR ZetaCRD and GT1 is a mono-tube damper.
Another major difference especially with consistency under hard track use.

Hope that answer a few questions. Anything else just ask away.

Jerrick

 

[Siestarider]

Sorry about misspelling your name Jerrick, so many diamond commercials this time of year, have jared on the brain.

Playing with my dampers today, endlessly entertaining. I do not have access to 4 wheel scales, wonder if an approximate corner balance can be obtained just by copying a corner-balanced Fist's ride heights by wheel?

 

[MeisterR]

^^^Thanks, good to know!

Just how much more (percentage wise) would you have to charge IF even the bodies/mounts/brakets/etc. were made either here, or in Jolly 'Ol England, instead of Taiwan?

To be honest, it isn't worth even looking into.
The sad part is some of the Taiwanese parts are so good, I'll actually have a hard time looking for companies in the UK to actually provide the same.

Take one of the damper tube body for example, one of the most important parts of a mono-tube damper.
It have to be finish correctly, it have to be DEAD STRAIGHT, because other wise the piston get get "sticky" half way down the body.
This issue happen to the best, I remember with the Porcshe Carrera Cup suspension have that problem with Bilstein years ago, and that is why the racing series change over to SACH.
Don't think for a minute that just because it is expensive, it is going to be good.

Anyways, we "spot" tested a damper tube just want to see how "accurate" it was.
The tube body was 190mm long, and the internal deviation was "7 MICRON", that is 7/1000 of an mm.
That is as straight as you are EVER going to get them, and to a point where it is not a price issue but a quality issue if we were to get the tube body made in the UK.

I can get tube and get them machined in house at our workshop, those will be perfect as we check them over and over; it is what we do if we are building custom made suspension for race cars.
But on a "mass production" basis, I hate to say that I just don't trust firms in the UK to have that ability to produce what we want, let alone at a sensible price.

The UK got loads of great engineers, and making things that work are second to none.
The oversea companies can build great items, they just lack the experience and knowledge to build something that is good.

This is where MeisterR comes in.
We don't BUY what they build, we TELL them what to build.
Everything we tell the manufacturer are all under a non-disclosure agreement.
What that mean is even the manufacturer own product line cannot use data provided by us, it is pretty much that simple.

If you think 2 suspension look similar will perform the same, think again.
MeisterR aren't the cheapest in the market, but I can tell you for sure that for the price nothing will perform the same as MeisterR.
We are more expensive, but for good reasons.

Jerrick

 

[MeisterR]

Sorry about misspelling your name Jerrick, so many diamond commercials this time of year, have jared on the brain.

Playing with my dampers today, endlessly entertaining. I do not have access to 4 wheel scales, wonder if an approximate corner balance can be obtained just by copying a corner-balanced Fist's ride heights by wheel?

To be honest, in the grand scheme of things, don't worry about corner balancing.
Yes, it isn't going to be even, but then neither is the standard car.

The long as the "overall" suspension is compliant and you are enjoying it.
I wouldn't nik pick the minor details.

If you can get it on a scale and adjust them, it wouldn't hurt.
But it isn't like the car will function poorly without being balance.

For now, just get the suspension to what you like and enjoy the car.
The damping adjustment that suit your preference far out weight the corner balancing.
You can always balance the suspension later when you actually get the chance.

That would be my suggestion.

Jerrick

 

[KKaWing]

Kinda relevant.

[video=youtube;GXsTFyuo8UM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXsTFyuo8UM[/video]

 

[spoon]

Hmm, CNC internal. That's a positive!

Also FWIW, China builds have come a long way. They are still hit or miss with some companies, but China has stepped up the game as far as production quality go. Still with that said, Taiwan build has always been of much higher quality than China build, in my experiences and probably most people as well.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Hmm, CNC internal. That's a positive!

Also FWIW, China builds have come a long way. They are still hit or miss with some companies, but China has stepped up the game as far as production quality go. Still with that said, Taiwan build has always been of much higher quality than China build, in my experiences and probably most people as well.

I am in TOTAL agreement with the bolded above, even though I disagree with the mainland China statement.