Transmission fluid change

[M0LTEN]

I have no clue how much came out. I just drained it with the intentions of putting in the full 2L I had.
From everything I have read, 2L seems to be the correct amount. I just didn't see the harm in .3L more
anyways.

 

[FiSTerMr]

I have no clue how much came out. I just drained it with the intentions of putting in the full 2L I had.
From everything I have read, 2L seems to be the correct amount. I just didn't see the harm in .3L more
anyways.

Agreed. Over the weekend I was perusing some FoST threads and I found one were someone asked about overfilling concerns, I didnt think it was something to be worried about.
It's too bad they didn't make the fill hole opening be the proper level like just about every other manual transmission in existence.

 

[danbfree]

Agreed. Over the weekend I was perusing some FoST threads and I found one were someone asked about overfilling concerns, I didnt think it was something to be worried about.
It's too bad they didn't make the fill hole opening be the proper level like just about every other manual transmission in existence.

I thought we determined MTF-2 was exactly factory weight/viscosity? Anyway, I think 2L is perfect as the 5 speed takes 2.1L and with one more gear taking room would mean 2L is perfect...

 

[FiSTerMr]

I thought we determined MTF-2 was exactly factory weight/viscosity? Anyway, I think 2L is perfect as the 5 speed takes 2.1L and with one more gear taking room would mean 2L is perfect...

According to a VOA, it's around 7.x cst at 100c. OEM is around 6.2 cst at 100c. Molekule on BITOG posted white papers about mtfs/dcts and their viscosity ratings relative to eachother.

Ravenol USA emailed me back saying that if I want to use a fluid as close as possible to oem (viscosity-wise), I should go with mtf-3. They also made it a point to tell me this "unofficially", since technically Ford specs "dct fluid" (even tough the spec # they include on mtf-2 & mtf-3 coincides with Ford).
I can copy and paste the email if you guys would like. I emailed a follow-up to the guy, but have yet to hear back.

 

[FiSTerMr]

From Molekule:

Here is an updated list of dedicated GL-4 and a few GL-5 MTL's.

NOTE: This list is only a �suggested� list of currently known MTFs that may be applicable as a replacement. It is not an endorsement of any one fluid, nor is it implied that any one fluid will cure problems in MTs that have design problems or are worn.


A. These MTL fluids are closest to a Kinematic Viscosity of 6.x cSt@100C (About the same viscosity as a Dexron VI) and SAE 70 or so are:

1. Castrol Syntrans FE 75W,

2. BMW (Pentosin) MTF-LT-3,

3. Honda MTII or MTF 2.

4. Ford FML-XT-11-QDC

5. Volvo Manual Transmission Fluid (6.4 cSt) [Recommended for: type M65 5-speed with 6-cyl. engine, M66, MTX75 and MMT6 and of the type M56, M58 and M59 from and including model year 1996. Meets Ford specification WSSM2C200-D2]


B. The next higher viscosity MTL would be the 7.0 to 7.5 cSt@100C versions [70W75] (About the same viscosity as the original DexronIII/Merc)

1. Royal Purple's Synchromax

2. Ravenol MTF-2

3. Honda MTF

4. VW part number G052512A2

5. GM Manual Transmission and Transfer Case Fluid

6. BMW (Pentosin MTF 2) MTF-LT-1, 2

7. Tutelo (Petronus, Italy, Product Code 1402)

8. Pentosin Pro Gear 70W75 (Australia)


C. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Castrol Syntrans V FE 75W-80 8.0cSt

D. The next higher viscosity MTL would be BG Synchroshift II 8.2 cSt

E. The next higher viscosity is Mopar Type MS-9417 MTL 9.0cSt

F. Valvoline MTF Part Number 811095 9.2 cSt

G. The next higher viscosity MTL would be Pennzoil Synchromesh 9.3 cSt


H. The next group of MTL�s are in the 10.x cSt (SAE 75W80) range:

1. Redline MTL 75W80

2. Amsoil MTF (9.7 cSt)

3. GM Synchromesh�s

4. Volvo MTF 645

5. Fuchs TITAN SINTOFLUID SAE 75W-80 synthetic MTF (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Lodexol (Morris Lubricants) MTF


I. The next higher viscosity MTL would be a 12.0cSt@100C and SAE 75W85:

1. Redline MT-85 � 12.0 cSt


J. The next higher viscosity MTLs in the 14-15 cSt ( SAE 75W90) range would be:

1. Amsoil MTG

2. Redline MT-90

3. Castrol Syntrans Multivehicle 75W-90

4. Castrol Syntrans Transaxle 75w-90

5. Ford XT-75W90-QGT (Carries a GL-5 rating as well)

6. Ford MOTORCRAFT� Full Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid XT-M5-QS

7. Subaru Extra-S Gear & Transmission Fluid carries a GL-5 Rating because it is used in common sump driveline systems.

 

[danbfree]

From Molekule:

Wow, that is quite a lengthy list, very interesting to hear MTF-3 was closer to Ford fluid than MTF-2, which I had been previously told was the closest... oh well, I live where it's mild and rarely super hot or super cold and really like the MTF-2 so I guess i'm good, but this list is a fantastic reference, great work in getting this! I would personally avoid GL-5's and stick to GL-4's on the list to be safe, not sure how many that eliminates but still plenty to choose from! I'm interested in that Pentosin in the first group now, another good German brand like Ravenol...

 

[FiSTerMr]

Wow, that is quite a lengthy list, very interesting to hear MTF-3 was closer to Ford fluid than MTF-2, which I had been previously told was the closest... oh well, I live where it's mild and rarely super hot or super cold and really like the MTF-2 so I guess i'm good, but this list is a fantastic reference, great work in getting this! I would personally avoid GL-5's and stick to GL-4's on the list to be safe, not sure how many that eliminates but still plenty to choose from! I'm interested in that Pentosin in the first group now, another good German brand like Ravenol...

No prob!
Here's the email correspondence with ravenol:

"Hi, I have a 2017 Ford Fiesta ST and two of your manual transmission fluids, MTF-2 (75W-80) and MTF-3 (75W), reference the OE same spec, WSS-M2C200-D2. Can you tell me which is the more appropriate fluid from my application?*

Thanks,
Ivan"
----------------------
"Hello Ivan,

Thank you for your interest in RAVENOL products for your vehicle.*

From what I can tell, there is much debate and confusion about the correct spec and fluid to use in your transmission.* According to the owner’s manual, your vehicle requires XT-11-QDC Dual Clutch Transmission Fluid.* Our equivalent product is the RAVENOL DCT/DSG Dual Clutch Fluid.* However, the manual also specifies the WSS-M2C200-D2 spec.* According to Ford, the WSS-M2C200-D2 is the superseded number of the WSD-M2C200-D2.* It is possible that there was indeed a formula change that altered the viscosity of the fluid and the new spec reflects a lower viscosity.

So the 3 options are:

DCT/DSG Fluid

MTF-2 75w80

MTF-3 75w

Officially, I can only recommend that you abide by what you find in the owner’s manual.* But ultimately the choice is yours. *If you are only considering the MTFs then I recommend the MTF-3 75w since customers with your vehicle appear to enjoy the lower viscosity fluid in this transmission.

If you have any further questions please contact us again."

 

[M-Sport fan]

The Ravenol MTF-3 was not even out yet when he made up that list, that's why it is not in that first group.

Molekule; a tribologist with VAST, reliable, and proven knowledge of his chosen specialty field of expertise (and I FULLY respect him for THAT!), as for any other topics/viewpoints, well, no comment.

 

[danbfree]

The Ravenol MTF-3 was not even out yet when he made up that list, that's why it is not in that first group.

Molekule; a tribologist with VAST, reliable, and proven knowledge of his chosen specialty field of expertise (and I FULLY respect him for THAT!), as for any other topics/viewpoints, well, no comment.

Looks like the Pentosin also has been updated, the one listed isn't even available any more, I think it's easy sticking with the Ravenol anyway, I'm now getting curious about change intervals, maybe 30k now that I changed my OEM out at 12.5k?

 

[FiSTerMr]

The Ravenol MTF-3 was not even out yet when he made up that list, that's why it is not in that first group.

Molekule; a tribologist with VAST, reliable, and proven knowledge of his chosen specialty field of expertise (and I FULLY respect him for THAT!), as for any other topics/viewpoints, well, no comment.

Yup, didn't come out as of that post. I did find a voa that showed mtf-3 at 7.x cst at 100c, which is contrary to even what ravenol suggests (that it is more closely maligned to the owm viscosity ). But from other reading, it seems as though it is just about identical to oem viscosity.

One further note:
The viscosity for motul dctf is about the same as the ravenol mtf-2 (7.x), even though it is a dct specific type fluid. And I would use it, but being a blend throws me off. As the OEM stuff is a full synthetic, it made the choice easier for me between the two.

Molekule does state (not sure if it's in that post) that dctf is basically a LV mtf with additive packs. And for the record, rav mtf-2 and 3 are LV mtf fluids (3 being a little lower viscosity).

 

[M-Sport fan]

Sadly, the Ravenol DCT fluid is also a synthetic blend, just like the Motul stuff, for those who insist on using a 'by the manual' recommended DCT fluid.

 

[FiSTerMr]

Sadly, the Ravenol DCT fluid is also a synthetic blend, just like the Motul stuff, for those who insist on using a 'by the manual' recommended DCT fluid.

They do state that it's a synthetic fluid on their .de site. But the fact that they don't say "fully" (which is a dubious term in itself), or the preferred term, "100%", leads me to believe that you're correct.

Edited to attach photo.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Here in the states companies are allowed by law to label a group 3 based product as "synthetic", in the EU, they are NOT.

MOST, if not all of the 'on the shelf at Wal Mart and chain stores' motor oils labeled as "Synthetic" consist mostly group 3 (of which the Gas To Liquid, or "Visom" bases are classified as well) base stocks, some with added real, fully synthetic group 4 or 5 (PAO/POE/other than group 2 and 3) base stocks mixed in for various benefits/reasons.

"High quality hydrocracked base oils" albeit yes, very good, are still group 3 base stocks, which are NOT allowed to be called "fully synthetic" according to the Euro/rest of world lubricant rules.

Merely explaining WHY the "synthetic" labels differ between here and elsewhere, NOT claiming that one is better than the other in any way.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Is this BITOG ? I swear that somehow...some way the IP address is BITOG....this is becoming a vicious cycle and obviously it will never END....as long as there is a MTF OR DCTF fluid in there that's all that matters....either one is better than NOTHING. So lets agree to disagree here and have some beers or Drink coffee and eat Caramel s....whatever fits your fancy. Quit being broken records and droning on and on....put the tallywacker rules away! Cripes

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[FiSTerMr]

Is this BITOG ? I swear that somehow...some way the IP address is BITOG....this is becoming a vicious cycle and obviously it will never END....as long as there is a MTF OR DCTFfluid in there that's all that matters....either one is better than NOTHING. So lets agree to disagree here and have some beers or Drink coffee and eat Caramel s....whatever fits your fancy. Quit being broken records and droning on and on....put the tallywacker rules away! Cripes

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

But but but... Nevermind [emoji850]

One thing I would like to add though is that I bet the Europe (non-us) doesnt spec actual dct for our cars. I tried finding a supplement, but failed. Ford however does make a 6 speed specific trans fluid that is what I believe your supposed to buy as an oem replacement
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Genuine-Ford-75w80-Transmission-1547953/dp/B01ATJJ9YE

It looks to be EXACTLY what Ravenol MTF-2 was modeled after! In fact, part of the spec # on the ravenol us site is actually the product number for the Ford fluid, "WSS-M2C200-D2 154795 3"

Point I'm trying to make is, F*CK DCT fluid! [emoji869]

So, if it's good enough for Ford to spec actual gear oil, it's (more) than good enough for me.

 

[danbfree]

Ford however does make a 6 speed specific trans fluid that is what I believe your supposed to buy as an oem replacement
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Genuine-Ford-75w80-Transmission-1547953/dp/B01ATJJ9YE

It looks to be EXACTLY what Ravenol MTF-2 was modeled after! In fact, part of the spec # on the ravenol us site is actually the product number for the Ford fluid, "WSS-M2C200-D2 154795 3"

Point I'm trying to make is, F*CK DCT fluid!

So, if it's good enough for Ford to spec actual gear oil, it's (more) than good enough for me.

Good, glad I went with Ravenol MTF-2 with half the research and will just stick with that.

 

[FiSTerMr]

Good, glad I went with Ravenol MTF-2 with half the research and will just stick with that.

Yes, but what fun is that

 

[HardBoiledEgg]

Just an update.


1k miles in two weeks, and the shifts are already meh on the OEM fluid lol


Now I'm debating what to do. I mean it's the shortest possible shift on a stock knob so it's meant to be rough. I'm debating a weighted shift knob. Then debating on fluid changes

 

[koozy]

DCT fluid FTW IMO.


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[FiSTerMr]

DCT fluid FTW IMO.


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Which brand?