Brake job mistake

[boombots]

They won't do anything without putting factory pads on atleast the front...

I'm going to drive it to another dealer. I'd have it towed but I'm fed up with that ordeal too as I just saw the truck driver chipped my rim up with the equipment. I'm so over owning this car. Ford won't do crap about my noisy whine in the transmission either.

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[boombots]

Dave, I know you sent me text from the service manual. Do you have a copy of it or can screen shot so I have "proof".

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[boombots]

Ok so going to another dealer. They said they can do the abs hcu bleed. They couldn't understand why the first dealer couldn't do it.

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[Ceecab705]

I'm pretty sure you can find a gravel road and slam on the brakes a few times to activate the abs pump then re-bleed. It has worked for me before on other cars.

 

[boombots]

Well... Ford dealer #2 says it's the pads again. They bled it and inspected it all. They said the pad needed bedded. They said a few hundred miles to bed them.... I couldn't even stop the car! The pedal sinks hard. If that's the case NEVER buy hawk pads. Or maybe these 350 dollar rotors I have are shit?

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[Ceecab705]

I can't see how pads and rotors are doing that. Try the gravel road abs activation then re-bleed.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Wait.... the pedal bleeds down to the floor and they're claiming that it's your pads?! I think that someone needs a lesson in how hydraulics work.

I've been following this thread because I have a similar problem. After my Wilwood BBK install (and, perhaps, before - I wasn't paying very good attention) my pedal is super stiff when the car is off but very slowly bleeds down when the engine is running. I'm not losing fluid.

Is everyone else's (except the OP, of course) pedal stiff when the car is running or is there a bit of bleed down? OP, how fast is your bleed down - after you pump the pedal up how long will it take to bleed down to the floor?

 

[boombots]

It sank just about to the floor it maybe 5 seconds of holding pressure. Then you could pump it up hard again. It did not feel normal. He said they got them real hot and they feel better (they also bled so maybe got air out). The advisor said he drove it and it feels ok. I'll go see after work. He said it's a firm pedal feel.

Hawk says the bedding process is a series of hard stops. I couldn't make a hard stop if I needed to. I bet from 60 it would be maybe 50yds to stop. I'm curious how it is now.




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[Ceecab705]

Also, when you re-bleed do it with the engine running and pump fast to chase the air out. I've been in your situation before.

 

[jeffreylyon]

It sank just about to the floor it maybe 5 seconds of holding pressure. Then you could pump it up hard again. It did not feel normal. He said they got them real hot and they feel better (they also bled so maybe got air out). The advisor said he drove it and it feels ok. I'll go see after work. He said it's a firm pedal feel.

Hawk says the bedding process is a series of hard stops. I couldn't make a hard stop if I needed to. I bet from 60 it would be maybe 50yds to stop. I'm curious how it is now.




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That's... weird. Maybe I don't understand how ABS systems work - why would the pedal continue to bleed down even after all of the air in the line is compressed? With non-ABS brakes air in the line means a spongy pedal, not a sinking pedal.

At any rate, I hope that your baby is fixed!

 

[boombots]

The whole thing is weird to me. It didn't feel like a normal air in the lines issue but didn't feel like non bedded pads either... Hopefully it's good now. I'm 400 in for pads and rotors, 180 for a new master, 200 for bleeding at dealer #1 and 175 for bleeding and diagnosis/driving at dealer #2.

I hope it's good. I've been considering selling and getting a new truck. I need a truck for my boat and my old truck is falling apart servicing as DD right now...

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[jeffreylyon]

I hope it's good. I've been considering selling and getting a new truck. I need a truck for my boat and my old truck is falling apart servicing as DD right now...

Hopefully all is well with your FiST and a quick drive with a firm brake pedal will erase any thoughts of replacing it.

 

[D1JL]

Also, when you re-bleed do it with the engine running and pump fast to chase the air out. I've been in your situation before.

Not to cause an argument but this is wrong.

Pumping fast churns the air into the fluid making smaller bubbles this then just takes longer to get all of the air out.
Always pump slowly.

Brake fluid does not compress therefore the pads could not possibility cause this problem.
However seating the pads is required for them to work well.

Hard stops to engage the ABS is a good idea to help reset the values however, in this case I think you have jammed one and replacement of the ABS/HCU may be the only answer.
Testing the ABS in an open parking lot or street is best.
On a paved surface you can hear and feel the ABS working.
On dirt or gravel the surface is extremely uneven therefore you cannot feel the pedal pulsing or the tires chirping.



Dave

 

[jeffreylyon]

Hard stops to engage the ABS is a good idea to help reset the values however, in this case I think you have jammed one and replacement of the ABS/HCU may be the only answer.
Testing the ABS in an open parking lot or street is best.
On a paved surface you can hear and feel the ABS working.
On dirt or gravel the surface is extremely uneven therefore you cannot feel the pedal pulsing or the tires chirping.

Huh..., so you're proposing that the ABS values need to be reseated and firing them might fix the bleed down problem? I'm hard on brakes but spent too much time in FF and FC cars to dare lock them, so maybe that's my problem. I'll give it a shot on the way home from work. Thx!

 

[D1JL]

I do believe that it is a good Idea to test various systems in a car periodically.
I also do test the ABS as a diagnostic tool, just to see if it is working correctly.
When I returned a car to a customer, I wanted to make absolutely sure that it was SAFE and in proper working order.




BTW, I did try very hard to NOT test Air Bags and Crumple Zones.



Dave

 

[boombots]

Pedal feels better, but still stops worse than my truck towing my boat. Could the pads literally be that bad? Or the rotors?

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[boombots]

Anyone have any old worn ford pads I can have? I'll pay shipping

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[boombots]

I mean, could there is a mild taper on the edge of the front pads that made them a tiny bit different than oem, but that's fairly normal on aftermarket pads to have a tapered front and rear edge.

They also state that front and rear rotors temp checked at the same temps with their temp gun... Shouldn't front ones be way hotter?

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[Intuit]

Stopping performance is irrelevant if the pedal is depressing farther than is normal for the vehicle.

Sometimes they'll do things to appease the customer, but mechanics aren't usually stupid. They know how a hydraulic system works.

It's fishy that they're focusing on stopping performance while you're focusing on the pedal 'almost sinking to the floor'.

Tape the phone to some place safe, video cam light on, and recording with a good view of the pedal.

When it sinks, you will have video proof, and no one will have any excuse to be focusing on stopping performance vs hydraulic & ABS systems.

If you could somehow tie-in GPS location and speed info into the video, that will be a plus. Phones do this with pictures, not sure with video.

 

[D1JL]

The front brakes control 70% of the cars stopping force, so yes the fronts should get hotter.
The pad material can make a big difference in stopping ability.
As with racing pads must be hot before they work correctly, so racing pads are for the most part not good for street use.

With the power booster working the pedal will sink a little, that is just the power assist.
However it should be very firm and never sink to the floor.
If your pedal does sink to the floor, you DO have a hydraulic problem.

As for the chamfering on the edge of the pads, this is to reduce noise, mostly squealing.


BTW, does the ABS work?



Dave