How necessary is a new intake?

[OCS12]

The odd thing is that I borrowed a flow meter from work today and got some odd results compared to your data. The lower hose had roughly 87% of the inbound airflow that the stock intake did. Both samples taken at 60 mph. I work for an engine manufacturer, so we've got some neat toys to play with.

I'll admit, everything was pretty crudely rigged up. I'll see if I can get some solid numbers over the weekend. The problem is that if I seal the intake to the point where all air passes through the meter, it'll skew the data.

I'm not arguing with your data at all, it just looks to me like our engines gulp air hard enough to overcome the negative pressure. My setup is also home made, so there's another annoying variance.

 

[OCS12]

So today I sealed off the area around the flow meter, one port at a time, with good old fashioned duct tape. This time I saw an 84% flow rate in the lower hose versus stock induction at 60 mph. However... Your data is sound as well. When I'd go to 6th gear at the same speed, it dropped to about 20%. I'll admit the data is flawed because I had to force each inlet through a 1" flow meter, but, the data has me convinced that when the engine builds boost, that second inlet overcomes the negative pressure. I still plan to reroute the second induction hose based on your findings, but it's nice to know Mountune wasn't crazy when they went with that design.

 

[OCS12]

P.S. As an engineer, I'm thrilled to exchange data with someone else willing to do genuine testing. I could care less if I get proven wrong every time, I just want the best results possible!

 

[Original J-Pat]

So is it necessary to buy the whole induction kit from Mountune with the High flow induction hose? Or are you fine with it on the stock turbo?

 

[OCS12]

So is it necessary to buy the whole induction kit from Mountune with the High flow induction hose? Or are you fine with it on the stock turbo?

I think the consensus among the many who've upgraded is that a drop in filter is all you really need on the stock turbo.

 

[Turbo65]

I put the big mouth and a panel filter in and called it good. I feel like it's making better power in the higher temps we are having right now

 

[Original J-Pat]

I see. I'll just have to read around more I may need to replace the filter I'm not sure how long until it needs to be replaced or cleaned out.

 

[BiigMe]

I put the big mouth and a panel filter in and called it good. I feel like it's making better power in the higher temps we are having right now

The velossa tech one? I just heard about that, so now I'm trying to decide if I want to jerry rig one myself for a 1/10 of the price, or go with one that looks badass and fits nicely.

 

[BiigMe]

So today I sealed off the area around the flow meter, one port at a time, with good old fashioned duct tape. This time I saw an 84% flow rate in the lower hose versus stock induction at 60 mph. However... Your data is sound as well. When I'd go to 6th gear at the same speed, it dropped to about 20%. I'll admit the data is flawed because I had to force each inlet through a 1" flow meter, but, the data has me convinced that when the engine builds boost, that second inlet overcomes the negative pressure. I still plan to reroute the second induction hose based on your findings, but it's nice to know Mountune wasn't crazy when they went with that design.

Also as an engineer, I'd love to see your data vs someone with the ram scoop put on the front of the box. I really just want to see all the data so whenever I end up modding the air box I spend the least, get the most efficient air box I can, and do the least amount of work I can.

 

[Turbo65]

The velossa tech one? I just heard about that, so now I'm trying to decide if I want to jerry rig one myself for a 1/10 of the price, or go with one that looks badass and fits nicely.

Yes the Velossa tech one

 

[BiigMe]

Yes the Velossa tech one

Did you cut a hole in the shroud? If I have to do that I figure I'd rather just make a DIY one. But if there is a way to make it fit without cutting anything that could change my opinion on it.

 

[Turbo65]

You have to cut the hole for the big mouth to fit through. I was a little concerned at first but now you don't know it's there if you lift the hood.

 

[OCS12]

Also as an engineer, I'd love to see your data vs someone with the ram scoop put on the front of the box. I really just want to see all the data so whenever I end up modding the air box I spend the least, get the most efficient air box I can, and do the least amount of work I can.

The data was taken with an older Fluke airflow meter jury rigged through a 1" pvc pipe rigged in place with good old duct tape. So needless to say, the actual values are kind of pointless, but the percentages should be worthwhile.

5th gear/60 mph
66.2 CFM at the upper inlet, and 57.5CFM at the lower

6th gear/60 mph
52.8 CFM at the upper inlet, and 10.5CFM at the lower

The interesting thing from those results is the impact of the low pressure area (per Siestarider's testing). It appears that the lower hose loses most, if not all value as the RPM's fall.

I was mostly just goofing around at the time, but I'll try to cobble together a more accurate test rig to try out. I currently have a 3" duct coming out the bottom of the air box and running to the same location Mountune uses. It's not quite perfectly round though, because I found out you have to squash it to more an oval shape in order to get a 3" duct past the intercooler lines. This week I plan to copy Siestariders's idea for the vented fog light. I'll get some numbers before and after I relocate it, as well as RPM/boost data at the time of sampling. This is all kind of pointless, because I don't think airflow is really a major issue with our cars, but I'm a nerd and don't mind wasting time to go for the best results possible.

If anyone's got better ideas for how to test this, I'm all ears. Electricity/Control Systems are what I usually play with, so air flow systems aren't exactly my specialty.

 

[Siestarider]

I just completed install of fog light intake hose to lower Mountune opening. The 2.5" flex hose gets tight between rear end of fog light enclosure and WW bottle. Plus I had to route it over the IC outet pipe, which means going through another tight spot between radiator shroud and frame. So it has 2 bends and a narrower x-section at radiator.frame constriction point. On the other hand, the 3" fog opening will produce plenty of pressure at speed. My 2" brake cooling hoses use up the best routes, but I am not sure the additional cold air inlet will make a difference.

Unfortunately while I had car apart I installed Cyborg as well. So logging vs stock turbo Cobb S3 I already have will be a waste of time. i think I will measure air pressure at stock and custom inlet points. try to get some idea of air flow from that. Plus I need tuning, have to run Cyborg on Cobb S3 tune for moment until I get a tuner lined up. Too dark to shoot pic of exterior tonight, plus its all black and hard to see.

As I said, my interest in this is 80 mph up, I want better performance on long straights at track. Letting intake operate at higher than ambient pressure seems like it should help the big end with Cyborg.

 

[OCS12]

I just completed install of fog light intake hose to lower Mountune opening. The 2.5" flex hose gets tight between rear end of fog light enclosure and WW bottle. Plus I had to route it over the IC outet pipe, which means going through another tight spot between radiator shroud and frame. So it has 2 bends and a narrower x-section at radiator.frame constriction point. On the other hand, the 3" fog opening will produce plenty of pressure at speed. My 2" brake cooling hoses use up the best routes, but I am not sure the additional cold air inlet will make a difference.

Unfortunately while I had car apart I installed Cyborg as well. So logging vs stock turbo Cobb S3 I already have will be a waste of time. i think I will measure air pressure at stock and custom inlet points. try to get some idea of air flow from that. Plus I need tuning, have to run Cyborg on Cobb S3 tune for moment until I get a tuner lined up. Too dark to shoot pic of exterior tonight, plus its all black and hard to see.

As I said, my interest in this is 80 mph up, I want better performance on long straights at track. Letting intake operate at higher than ambient pressure seems like it should help the big end with Cyborg.

I hit the same obstacle tonight. I can get a 3" hose all the way to the fog lights, but it doesn't look like I can connect the dots. I didn't want to drop down to a 2" hose, but if I do, at least I can route it much cleaner.

 

[Siestarider]

I hit the same obstacle tonight. I can get a 3" hose all the way to the fog lights, but it doesn't look like I can connect the dots. I didn't want to drop down to a 2" hose, but if I do, at least I can route it much cleaner.

The Mountune lower inlet is 2.5"

My 2" hose works fine with CMB brake duct inlets. Fits beside IC hose and over lower IC shroud on both sides. But I cut out the fake vents to feed those.

I am having wear on mine at two places, where tire hits on tight turns, and at suspension crossmember I routed over. For tracking I believe a better solution would be quick disconnects between 2" hose where it comes out of nose and before tire, not needed on street anyway, and reconnecting to brake ducts is easy with wheels off. Just need to find the right couplers to enable this change from street to track.

I posted pics on high pressure intake thread.

 

[marc5800]

So what's the overall consensus for an intake on the FiST? Not worth the $$$ for most systems since they are "hot" intakes or the gains are very minimal compared to the stock airbox + high flow panel filter?

 

[BiigMe]

So what's the overall consensus for an intake on the FiST? Not worth the $$$ for most systems since they are "hot" intakes or the gains are very minimal compared to the stock airbox + high flow panel filter?

Seems to me, the only 'true' CAI is a drop in filter and adding the Velossa Tech big mouth, which is about half the price of every other intake available for our car.

 

[Turbo65]

Seems to me, the only 'true' CAI is a drop in filter and adding the Velossa Tech big mouth, which is about half the price of every other intake available for our car.

Yep, that was my conclusion after much reading. Other CAI's might give slight gains but to me they were not worth the money or time and effort to install. I'm very happy with my big mouth and hi flow green filter.

 

[fST]

I purchased the cp-e intake during the 15% off 4th of July sale. I did it mainly because I wanted some induction noise and something that looks good. I also wanted a closed box design. My decision pretty much came down to Cobb or cp-e. I considered just a drop in filter but there isn't enough induction noise for my liking with that setup.