Wilwood BBK Seized after 3 track days

[meFiSTo]

I've done three track days at the ridge and destroyed the brakes each time. There are some threads here from other members who have had brake issues there too. My guess is that it's laid out so you can keep the TVC going almost constantly, never giving the brakes a good chance to cool. After a couple sessions the pads are totally glazed over and I may as well be pressing rocks against the rotors.

I've resigned myself to chickening out on turns 11 and 13. :/

This is certainly a worrisome thread regarding the killing of brakes at The Ridge -- whatever the type of brake hardware deployed. I've only been a couple of times so far, a half-day with SCCA and a full-day (minus one wet session) with Turn 2. I'm running stock brake hardware, plus Carbotech XP8 pads, Torque RT700 fluid, SS brake lines, and now the 993 cooling deflectors. After 3 visits to the track and a total of 14 sessions (6 at Portland last year) I still have 7 to 8 mm of pad left (min). I am new to The Ridge (now my favorite venue in the NW), so I'm braking a little earlier and not as hard as more experienced drivers. My brakes have held up well, no glazing or fade to date as far as i can tell. I've run with ESC off, with the exception of a couple of sessions when I forgot to disable it.

When you say "chickening out in turns 11 and 13," are you saying you are braking earlier or taking speed off going in? I do find those are the hardest braking areas, but again, I've not experienced any fade or other worrisome results at The Ridge (yet).

 

[BostonDriver]

I've found that even with the Wilwood's and high temp race pads the brakes will get soft if the traction control isn't 100% off. They didn't fade, but started to feel a bit soft late in the session which was odd and made me realize I forgot to turn it off.


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[gronktired]

This is certainly a worrisome thread regarding the killing brakes at The Ridge -- whatever the type of brake hardware deployed. I've only been a couple of times so far, a half-day with SCCA and a full-day (minus one wet session) with Turn 2. I'm running stock brake hardware, plus Carbotech XP8 pads, Torque RT700 fluid, SS brake lines, and now the 993 cooling deflectors. After 3 visits to the track and a total of 14 sessions (6 at Portland last year) I still have 7 to 8 mm of pad left (min). I am new to The Ridge (now my favorite venue in the NW), so I'm braking a little earlier and not as hard as more experienced drivers. My brakes have held up well, no glazing or fade to date as far as i can tell. I've run with ESC off, with the exception of a couple of sessions when I forgot to disable it.

When you say "chickening out in turns 11 and 13," are you saying you are braking earlier or taking speed off going in? I do find those are the hardest braking areas, but again, I've not experienced any fade or other worrisome results at The Ridge (yet).

How's the noise with the carbotech? Do you keep them on for street driving?

I brake way early on 11 and 13. I've nearly lost it on both of those from the brakes fading away. So far my only off track excursion was on 12 when I basically forgot to brake while discussing my fading brakes with the instructor.

 

[meFiSTo]

How's the noise with the carbotech? Do you keep them on for street driving?

I brake way early on 11 and 13. I've nearly lost it on both of those from the brakes fading away. So far my only off track excursion was on 12 when I basically forgot to brake while discussing my fading brakes with the instructor.

XP8s are not bad. It's been a while since I used XP10s, but my recollection was that they are noisier in general and are tougher on the discs. These XP8s have worn well for me, but as I brake later in 11 and 13, they are likely to wear out sooner, perhaps also start burning up the discs or lead to the calipers failing (never experienced that with the stock SVT brakes after 50 or so HPDE days). I did replace discs a couple of times and (out of an abundance of caution) preemptively replaced the hubs and spindles on my old supercharged SVT Focus a couple of times.

The Carbotech brakes I've used (XP8 and XP10) have seemed to be more "progressive" vs. big initial bite pads. That's just an observation, not so much a commentary on performance. I have, so far, not noticed any real fade (combined with Torque RT700 or Castrol SRF fluids and teflon brake lines).

YMMV depending on your driving style. I do not baby the car, but so far am still building speed (especially at The Ridge, since I'm new there).

Last point: This is currently mostly a recreational vehicle, not a daily driver. It has barely 3000 miles on it and was delivered April 30, 2014. A good percentage of miles have been put on there getting to the track(s) and at the track(s). Not that much driving around town. So, I have left the XP8s on the car. If it was a daily driver, I would swap to stock pads more religiously. Just being lazy.

 

[Zak757]

Out of curiosity, are there any other *affordable* brake caliper options besides Wilwood? I'm not really worried about increasing stopping power as much as reducing unsprung weight. Brembo/StopTech are very pricey options.

 

[Noodles]

There is a special price going on for the Rotora value kit. http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/10246-Rotora-Street-Challenge-BBK It's not two piece rotors but it's plenty big with forged calipers. Saves approximately 15% of the stock front weight.

Sent from the Canyon's Edge

 

[RAAMaudio]

I had most brands of brakes and the Rotora brakes were quite nice for the money. I would check to see if they can be ordered with two piece rotors to save more weight especially since it is rotational mass so more important than saving it in the caliper, which still maters of course.

I have had quite a few sets of Wilwoods and never had a problem with the calipers so not sure what happened to the one set mentioned here but if it was ran with the nanies on, hot day, hard use, much more heat is generated in the brakes.

 

[Noodles]

I had most brands of brakes and the Rotora brakes were quite nice for the money. I would check to see if they can be ordered with two piece rotors to save more weight especially since it is rotational mass so more important than saving it in the caliper, which still maters of course.

Right now the kit from Rotora can be had with both single piece and two piece rotors. Price is just different.


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[RAAMaudio]

Just make sure you can get pads for a decent price and they are available, if pads cost to much then not worth saving a bit on brakes only to spend more on pads over time

 

[Siestarider]

Lots of good info here, so I am resurrecting the thread. Since I last posted i mounted the used WW BBK (stock front rotors wore out) and successfully tracked and streeted no problems.

I cannot tell much difference between stock and WW fronts, neither fades and both easily go to ABS limit on track. No issues on street. Carbotech XP 10 pads on for last 9 months.

What I wonder about most is why members have such divergent experience with both WW BBK kits and with stock brakes. I would still be running stock if rotors had not passed minimum thickness. But WW BBK seems a fine replacement so far, and loosing that much un-sprung weight is good.

 

[M-Sport fan]

IF I am going to 'step up' to a BBK, I am going to save up my (VERY many) pennies for an ap Racing setup, given the problems some have had with their Wilwoods.

I KNOW it is still not a guarantee of no problems, but I just like their whole caliper design/construction better anyway.

Until then, I will live with just upgraded pads/rotors, stainless lines, cooling, and top shelf fluid.

 

[RAAMaudio]

M-Sport, I am sure you understand all this well so posting it for others to see

Not sure what was posted now as some time ago but brake cooling and turning off the nannies will go a long way in keeping stock, WW or AP brakes working properly for longer on track.

I have had AP, Brembo, Stoptech, and others as well as WW and never had major issues with any of them when setup properly, all great brakes.

Heat killing the brakes is still going to be an issue unless the other items are dealt with and the one thing that many are likely going to need is an LSD so the TV is only used a little as it can cause the issues most have had, the LSD will work great with it and take a big load off the brakes.

Of course all this depends on driving style, last second braking which I love to do, how sticky the tires, how well setup the suspension, the particular tracks ran as some are far harder on brakes, etc.....

The one car I had major brake issues was a very quick Forester XT, highly modded, 285 slicks on track, very fast lap times, stock brakes lasted half a day, STI Brembo with cooling lasted 4 out of 5 sessions, Stoptech race/street system fixed the issue.