curious about 'B-Spec' size wheel/tire set ups??

[dyn085]

Why even get aftermarket wheels if not concerned with performance or track? To me people that build cars for show are just like being a poser. All about looking like performance car but no idea how to even use it like one......

Lol, that's cute. The same reason people spend money on intakes and exhaust and wing risers-because they like them and can afford them.
Not a racecar-

Not a racecar-

Racecar-

 

[BronxBomber]

Lol, that's cute. The same reason people spend money on intakes and exhaust and wing risers-because they like them and can afford them.
Not a racecar-

Not a racecar-

Racecar-

As he drops the mic....

 

[GAbOS]

There's a new Honda Civic around that sets off car alarms and has 1/8 of his wheels hidden in his fenders. I give him the finger every time.

 

[BronxBomber]

There's a new Honda Civic around that sets off car alarms and has 1/8 of his wheels hidden in his fenders. I give him the finger every time.

I know exactly what you're talking about. One of my co-workers has a 2011 civic tuned nicely with a set of Enkei RPF-1 in polished finish. Car looks nice and is quick, but he's probably at -4.0 camber and chews up the inside of his tires because he's trying to stance it. I don't get why spend all this money on swaybars, coilovers and body stiffening if you can't even put any tire down because you've effectively reduced your contact patch by half. Also his tires are stretched by a good amount. SMH....

 

[RAAMaudio]

I do rub a few the wrong way at times, likely always will. Buying a performance car, which this one is, and making it slower to fit into some theme of look at me, look fast, but slower just does not register right in my 48 years of modding cars to be faster, and better, and safer in emergency situations while on the road. With the majority of clueless drivers these days out there texting, running red lights (I see this many times everyday in the Scottsdale Phoenix area, big hurry to go nowhere, shopping and out to eat food industry supplied toxic tasty looking but shitty tasting crap, if you know what real food tastes like, most all places serve)

 

[dyn085]

Not surprisingly, neither of my ST's are slower than stock. People might think so simply because I'm not running smaller-than-stock wheels, but that's a horrible single metric to judge an entire platform by. If mine isn't slower than stock then I'm sure there are plenty of others on 17's that aren't slower than stock as well.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I was referring to the 2011 Civic with far to much camber and I am sure it is lowered enough that the suspension geometry is compromised and barely any travel.

Though it may seem I am only into building a race car for the street it is quite different as I build a very streetable and reliable car that rides better than stock, outperforms the stock car in all ways and is very fast on a race track. I even add sound deadening, carefully located and the minimal amount, and take out all the weight I can then add back a quality fire extinguisher, first aid kit, just enough tools, some water, flashlights, a bit of survival gear and still weigh considerably less than stock. The cars become safer, not just faster, stopping, acceleration, obstacle avoidance, etc all part of the safety I build in. Always, all cars, trucks, trailers, have very good wheels and the best tires I can find to fit my needs and maintain them properly and replace them as soon as needed or compromised in any way.

Style is the last thing on my list of importance but I like some of course, understated being my usual result, the ST has gotten a bit wild to me with the CF hood I want to paint but my wife wants me to keep it as is

 

[RAAMaudio]

I was referring to the 2011 Civic with far to much camber and I am sure it is lowered enough that the suspension geometry is compromised and barely any travel.

Though it may seem I am only into building a race car for the street it is quite different as I build a very streetable and reliable car that rides better than stock, outperforms the stock car in all ways and is very fast on a race track. I even add sound deadening, carefully located and the minimal amount, and take out all the weight I can then add back a quality fire extinguisher, first aid kit, just enough tools, some water, flashlights, a bit of survival gear and still weigh considerably less than stock. The cars become safer, not just faster, stopping, acceleration, obstacle avoidance, etc all part of the safety I build in. Always, all cars, trucks, trailers, have very good wheels and the best tires I can find to fit my needs and maintain them properly and replace them as soon as needed or compromised in any way.

Style is the last thing on my list of importance but I like some of course, understated being my usual result, the ST has gotten a bit wild to me with the CF hood I want to paint but my wife wants me to keep it as is

 

[DP03]

I'm not surprised by the racers who want 16's for track performance. I am surprised with anyone going for looks would go to 16's. I've never been a "bigger is better" when it comes to car looks, and I despise the looks of cars that have 22's or 24's slapped on them. But I do think that factory or factory +1 sizes do look very good.

I have not seen a 16" wheel/tire combo that looks anywhere as nice as the stock 17's. Definitely a downgraded, cheaper car look to me. If I decide to regularly race this car, I'll do what I've done on all my other track cars over the years....I'll have a separate set of track wheels/tires that I can switch out in my garage in 1/2 hour. That's just me.

 

[Plainrt]

And I'm surprised you think the stock wheel looks good. I thinks it's somewhat ugly looking. Lol this debate could go on forever. Next event I'm at I'm gonna park next to a stock orange fist just to get a pic side by side.

 

[DP03]

And I'm surprised you think the stock wheel looks good. I thinks it's somewhat ugly looking. Lol this debate could go on forever. Next event I'm at I'm gonna park next to a stock orange fist just to get a pic side by side.

Though I do like the stockers, I really was meaning to say that I don't like any smaller diameter wheels. Period. That's just my opinion. It used to be that everyone wanted bigger wheels and to lower their car to give it that slammed look. Now I guess that's out. Folks are probably realizing that in many cases lowering a car can hurt performance and not improve it. That comment isn't meant across the board, as I know some lower their car with specific calculations in mind. Many, however, just lower it for looks and don't realize they're throwing off the geometry of the suspension. With the smaller diameter wheels, I can see doing it for ride quality and for racing. But for me, a higher profile tire just doesn't look as good.

I don't think I'm alone. Ask Tire Rack how many -1 packages they sell vs +1. It would be overwhelmingly plus packages, cause that's what most people think looks good on a car. I think a +1 on our car would result in a horrible ride, but it would look way better than a -1. Again, in my opinion.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Wilwood does not make a BBK that will fit under 15" wheels sometimes the info obtained on the phone there is not correct.

I developed my own kit with 11.75" rotors and recently reworked it at a cost of $600 and a lot of time so others can work with a company I gave the info to and get this setup. I did not do this for making money just to help make it available and right now the only known 15x8 wheel that will work is the 6ul in 4x100 bolt pattern. With this setup the caliper is pulled in as far as possible which results in using around 11.5" of the rotor, there are no 11.5" rotors made that would work and 11" is simply to small for the weight of the car if one is going to seriously track it.

For 16" wheels which there is little available though the great Enkei RPF1 will fit this kit but not the standard 12.19" Wilwood kit, another 4x100 wheel.

Depending on mod level, power, suspension, etc, even the 12.19" BBK might not be enough for some ST's and at a minimum need brake cooling ducts.

Much lower weight wheels will help reduce the load on the brakes considerably, my street wheels and tires, 6ul on 15x8, 11.4 lbs each, NeoGen 205s, come in right at 31 lbs, around 11 lbs lower than stock, per corner, a huge performance gain in all ways except absolute grip but pretty close. My summer only tires, Konig Helix, 15x9, Rival S in 225, weight per corner around 32.5lbs, my race setup on the same wheels, 225 RA1 weight is around 31.5lbs.

-------------

17's are simply to big for this car, 18's I will not even comment about, 16's are the sweet spot between real style and performance, 16x8 perfect under stock or if needed rolled fenders. There are some very good 16x7,8,9 wheels in the making, will be around 14lbs, cost around $159 each, flow formed so very strong, only in 4x100 which can be done for a very reasonable cost if do some looking into it, more so DIY as much as you can. No timeline yet as new molds have to be done, could be done, testing done, etc....the Wilwood 12.19" BBK likely will fit under them.

As always, lower weight rotational and unsprung mass has a huge effect on all aspects of performance, handling, braking, acceleration as well as ride comfort, usually noise and vibration, and wear and tare on the chassis.

Way too many new cars and some trucks have far to large a diameter wheels from the manfs, styling fad gotten out of control, just like far to much power in many cars, more than the car or drivers can safely use especially on public roads.

THANKS for that info.

Just what exactly would be involved in a swap to 5 bolts hubs for these cars (IF it is even possible to do retaining all of the stock nannies, and geometry), money and effort wise, EVEN IF it is considered by the majority on here to be totally unnecessary, or even a 'stupid' mod???

 

[M-Sport fan]

I do rub a few the wrong way at times, likely always will. Buying a performance car, which this one is, and making it slower to fit into some theme of look at me, look fast, but slower just does not register right in my 48 years of modding cars to be faster, and better, and safer in emergency situations while on the road. With the majority of clueless drivers these days out there texting, running red lights (I see this many times everyday in the Scottsdale Phoenix area, big hurry to go nowhere, shopping and out to eat food industry supplied toxic tasty looking but shitty tasting crap, if you know what real food tastes like, most all places serve)

You don't rub me the wrong way, as I am VERY thankful/grateful for all of the info and research you've done in your useful mod quest.

I TOTALLY agree with you on the performance/handling aspects of smaller diameter wheels, even though I think that even a GREAT looking spoke pattern/color wheel in 15" diameter DOES look too small for these cars, small as they may be.

I really do wish that we got the Brits'/Euros' 3 door versions over here, as to me at least they look a lot less 'goofy', and I also wish that the STs came from the factory with MUCH MORE pronounced fender flares, up to the size of the WRC R5 car versions.
These seem to make ANY size wheel look better on these cars, accommodate WIDER wheels/rubber, and make the rear wheel seem less 'lost' in that BIG/TALL rear quarter panel style of these cars.

Again, the above IS all about aesthetics, I just wish we could have BOTH aesthetics AND performance.

The one other thing you mentioned, which seems to be going the OTHER WAY for most cars/apps is the good/great TIRE availability.
In the f body world, one can NO LONGER get light, affordable 16" wheels, and there are only 3 sticky, 100 tread wear tires left to fit them (R888, RA1, NT-01), and 2 decent street tires (BFG Comp 2, Comp 2 all season).
THAT'S IT, NO 200 tread wear autocrossers, NO 220 to 300 treadwear MAX performance summers (like the Pilot Super Sport, etc.), NOTHING else.
EVERYONE and their great grand aunt goes up to 18s when road coursing these cars due to tire availability, as they are worried that the manufacturers will abandon/stop making even the popular 315/35-17 sizes.

Do we have ANY assurances from the manufacturers that the (good/performance and race) 15" & 16" size rubber for the FiST apps will be around in the near future, given how even most small car marques (Miata, Mini, etc.) are going to ever larger diameters (yes, to the chagrin and disgust of REAL enthusiasts)?????

 

[Plainrt]

Now all this talk wants to get a set of 17s with same tire setup as my 15s and compare times and feel of each setup at autocross. I don't believe the good tire choices in 15s and 16s will phase out anytime soon.

 

[dyn085]

Now all this talk wants to get a set of 17s with same tire setup as my 15s and compare times and feel of each setup at autocross. I don't believe the good tire choices in 15s and 16s will phase out anytime soon.

You would also need comparable wheels, like two identical sets of TD 1.2's but with different diameters. You would probably be surprised.

 

[BronxBomber]

THANKS for that info.

Just what exactly would be involved in a swap to 5 bolts hubs for these cars (IF it is even possible to do retaining all of the stock nannies, and geometry), money and effort wise, EVEN IF it is considered by the majority on here to be totally unnecessary, or even a 'stupid' mod???

It's a great mod if you're looking into getting aftermarket wheels. Your best bet would be to switch to a 4x100 bolt pattern as there are tons of wheels in he 4x100 bolt patterns and with all different width and weights. If you're ok with he limited selection in our crappy 4x108 bolt pattern, save your money. No real reason to switch, as the switch by itself won't do anything for you. I've wanted to do this for a while, just can't justify the expense as I would most likely need new bearings as well , not to mention paying for the approx 5 hours of labor. Over a $1,000 proposition for me. If interested, here's a link
www.fiestastforum.com/.../8909-Bolt-pattern-conversion-group-buy!-50- off!!

 

[M-Sport fan]

It's a great mod if you're looking into getting aftermarket wheels. Your best bet would be to switch to a 4x100 bolt pattern as there are tons of wheels in he 4x100 bolt patterns and with all different width and weights. If you're ok with he limited selection in our crappy 4x108 bolt pattern, save your money. No real reason to switch, as the switch by itself won't do anything for you. I've wanted to do this for a while, just can't justify the expense as I would most likely need new bearings as well , not to mention paying for the approx 5 hours of labor. Over a $1,000 proposition for me. If interested, here's a link
www.fiestastforum.com/.../8909-Bolt-pattern-conversion-group-buy!-50- off!!

Thanks for the above, but I was asking about converting to a 5 bolt pattern for STRENGTH reasons.

I don't care if there are 1000x more choices at even HALF the weight in another 4 bolt pattern, since I would MUCH rather spend that coin on a Quaife diff, and keep our stock pattern and use TD Pros (which I like just fine, DESPITE them not being the absolute lightest rollers out there).

 

[M-Sport fan]

I don't believe the good tire choices in 15s and 16s will phase out anytime soon.

I sure do hope you are correct sir, since this is also what the f body road race crew thought about their fave 315/30-17 size, and I fully expect even Hoosier to do away with their A/R 7s in that size any day now.

 

[BronxBomber]

Thanks for the above, but I was asking about converting to a 5 bolt pattern for STRENGTH reasons.

I don't care if there are 1000x more choices at even HALF the weight in another 4 bolt pattern, since I would MUCH rather spend that coin on a Quaife diff, and keep our stock pattern and use TD Pros (which I like just fine, DESPITE them not being the absolute lightest rollers out there).

He same guy can basically drill your hubs and rotors to just about any bolt pattern within reason. However I wouldn't worry about strength. RaamAudio has been running 4x 100 conversion and he tracks his car regularly while putting down around 300whp with no issues. So I wouldn't go 5 lug because you're scared of durability or longevity of the 4 x100 conversion. Would be a waste of$$

 

[BronxBomber]

Thanks for the above, but I was asking about converting to a 5 bolt pattern for STRENGTH reasons.

I don't care if there are 1000x more choices at even HALF the weight in another 4 bolt pattern, since I would MUCH rather spend that coin on a Quaife diff, and keep our stock pattern and use TD Pros (which I like just fine, DESPITE them not being the absolute lightest rollers out there).

He same guy can basically drill your hubs and rotors to just about any bolt pattern within reason. However I wouldn't worry about strength. RaamAudio has been running 4x 100 conversion and he tracks his car regularly while putting down around 300whp with no issues. So I wouldn't go 5 lug because you're scared of durability or longevity of the 4 x100 conversion. Would be a waste of$$