curious about 'B-Spec' size wheel/tire set ups??

[M-Sport fan]

Is the ONLY reason so many on here drop down to the B Spec-like wheel/tire sizes (16" diameter) the lower un-sprung mass, or do those who do this also actually LIKE the aesthetics of the tiny looking wheels on these cars??

I realize that this also helps cure the 'rubber band effect' by yielding a taller side wall tire, which protects the wheels better, and is also stronger for the really bad roads so many of us are forced to drive upon.

NO insults, arguments, dissing, or vitriol intended, just ASKING opinions/reasons straight up, THAT'S ALL!!

Also; this is directed at those who DO NOT actually race these cars in wheel to wheel B Spec events, and ONLY drive them on the street and in various autocross classes and open tracking events.

 

[Waterfan]

Opinion:
17" wheel choice on this small/light car was made mostly for the current aesthetic/market preference for "oversized" wheels. Moving "down" to 16" wheels (or smaller) is the more performance-oriented choice (primarily unsprung mass as you point out). Also the value choice as 16" tires are meaningfully cheaper than 17". Also an increase in comfort.

To directly answer your question: I like the aesthetic of the 17" wheels. I like the aesthetic of 16" just as much. Or maybe I cannot conceptually separate the performance/value/comfort benefits of smaller wheels and I am subconsciously forcing myself to say "that looks awesome". Either way, works for me.

Also not trying to flame. Different tastes for different people and that is a good thing.

 

[Plainrt]

I love the look and ride of smaller wheels on my fiesta. Also like the cheaper tires for autocross use.

 

[GAbOS]

16" wheels on the Fiesta do not look "tiny" at all. With the car being as small as it is, and the wheel wells not being overly large, 16's are pretty easy on the eyes.

 

[M-Sport fan]

OK all above, THANKS!

You may just have convinced me to go the TD Pro Race 16" route.

The dilemma I have is that I was going to use the factory stockers for WINTER use, and it just seems goofy to have a larger diameter winter set up than performance summer.

Some of the vendors/tuner places are talking about adapting the current (base, not Track Pack, or GT350) Mustang front fixed calipers/rotors for use on these cars.
ANY chance at all that those would fit under the current crop of 16" aftermarket wheels for the FiST, depending on the '"pad" height of the wheel centers??

I know that the current Wilwood 6 piston set ups for these cars will fit under as small as a 15" wheel, or so I'm told by Wilwood tech.

Is there any feasible 18" set up for the FiSTs, even though one would have to go MUCH larger in overall diameter than the OEM height, just to be able to put an available tire on it (i.e.; will the ABS, EST, whatever still function properly as long as the front and back overall diameters were the same)???

On that note, is there any market at all for the factory wheels in the standard silver/gray color, IF I decide to go smaller for the winter set up as well?

 

[Plainrt]

Oh boy 18s lol. How much brake is needed on these things lol

 

[M-Sport fan]

Oh boy 18s lol. How much brake is needed on these things lol

Dunno, but WHAT do the STs weigh, BASE, with NO OPTIONS whatsoever??

The Wilwood set up is probably more brake than anyone could ever use on these cars, even when all out, wheel to wheel road racing them, BUT, the Stang set up WILL BE a lot less coin than that.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Wilwood does not make a BBK that will fit under 15" wheels sometimes the info obtained on the phone there is not correct.

I developed my own kit with 11.75" rotors and recently reworked it at a cost of $600 and a lot of time so others can work with a company I gave the info to and get this setup. I did not do this for making money just to help make it available and right now the only known 15x8 wheel that will work is the 6ul in 4x100 bolt pattern. With this setup the caliper is pulled in as far as possible which results in using around 11.5" of the rotor, there are no 11.5" rotors made that would work and 11" is simply to small for the weight of the car if one is going to seriously track it.

For 16" wheels which there is little available though the great Enkei RPF1 will fit this kit but not the standard 12.19" Wilwood kit, another 4x100 wheel.

Depending on mod level, power, suspension, etc, even the 12.19" BBK might not be enough for some ST's and at a minimum need brake cooling ducts.

Much lower weight wheels will help reduce the load on the brakes considerably, my street wheels and tires, 6ul on 15x8, 11.4 lbs each, NeoGen 205s, come in right at 31 lbs, around 11 lbs lower than stock, per corner, a huge performance gain in all ways except absolute grip but pretty close. My summer only tires, Konig Helix, 15x9, Rival S in 225, weight per corner around 32.5lbs, my race setup on the same wheels, 225 RA1 weight is around 31.5lbs.

-------------

17's are simply to big for this car, 18's I will not even comment about, 16's are the sweet spot between real style and performance, 16x8 perfect under stock or if needed rolled fenders. There are some very good 16x7,8,9 wheels in the making, will be around 14lbs, cost around $159 each, flow formed so very strong, only in 4x100 which can be done for a very reasonable cost if do some looking into it, more so DIY as much as you can. No timeline yet as new molds have to be done, could be done, testing done, etc....the Wilwood 12.19" BBK likely will fit under them.

As always, lower weight rotational and unsprung mass has a huge effect on all aspects of performance, handling, braking, acceleration as well as ride comfort, usually noise and vibration, and wear and tare on the chassis.

Way too many new cars and some trucks have far to large a diameter wheels from the manfs, styling fad gotten out of control, just like far to much power in many cars, more than the car or drivers can safely use especially on public roads.

 

[Waterfan]

Dunno, but WHAT do the STs weigh, BASE, with NO OPTIONS whatsoever??

The Wilwood set up is probably more brake than anyone could ever use on these cars, even when all out, wheel to wheel road racing them, BUT, the Stang set up WILL BE a lot less coin than that.

2720 lbs is the official base curb weight. RECAROS add ~20-30 (the seat warmers mainly) and sunroof adds ~10?

Honestly, the stock Fiesta ST brakes are way more than I need on the street/in the canyons. (1 hour+ in the canyons and no discernible fade, for me)

Based on my forum observations:
-Stock brakes probably enough for autocross.
-Just OK for road course with pad/fluid upgrade. (Where car is mainly stock. Plan to replace the rotors soon)
-Major power adds/suspension upgrades should be matched with appropriate brake upgrades (e.g. as RAAM describes above)

 

[BronxBomber]

Honestly, I want my car to drive well and look good. I've never chimed in on the small wheel posts, as I believe to each his own. In my opinion, 17's look perfect on our cars. I think 15'a are far too small looking on our car. Name another car where the owner routinely "upgrades" his wheels by going two sizes smaller? I can't think of one. What I do know is that the roads in Orlando are quite good, so no need to go smaller for comforts sake. My car sees the majority of its time on the street, with little track time, so performance has to coexist with aesthetics. Again this is just my personal point of view. Of my car was a dedicated track rat, then I might consider the smaller diameter wheels.

 

[dyn085]

Honestly, I want my car to drive well and look good. I've never chimed in on the small wheel posts, as I believe to each his own. In my opinion, 17's look perfect on our cars. I think 15'a are far too small looking on our car. Name another car where the owner routinely "upgrades" his wheels by going two sizes smaller? I can't think of one. What I do know is that the roads in Orlando are quite good, so no need to go smaller for comforts sake. My car sees the majority of its time on the street, with little track time, so performance has to coexist with aesthetics. Again this is just my personal point of view. Of my car was a dedicated track rat, then I might consider the smaller diameter wheels.

I agree, and more especially every time I see a Honda Fit. I don't mind 16's, but smaller than that and the tires look like pontoons to me.

 

[Plainrt]

Honestly, I want my car to drive well and look good. I've never chimed in on the small wheel posts, as I believe to each his own. In my opinion, 17's look perfect on our cars. I think 15'a are far too small looking on our car. Name another car where the owner routinely "upgrades" his wheels by going two sizes smaller? I can't think of one. What I do know is that the roads in Orlando are quite good, so no need to go smaller for comforts sake. My car sees the majority of its time on the street, with little track time, so performance has to coexist with aesthetics. Again this is just my personal point of view. Of my car was a dedicated track rat, then I might consider the smaller diameter wheels.

Imo 15s look tuff. Imo people that care about reducing important weight go two sizes smaller....... Ride on the 17s sucks also.

 

[BronxBomber]

Imo 15s look tuff. Imo people that care about reducing important weight go two sizes smaller....... Ride on the 17s sucks also.

Again, as per my post, to each his own. I personally don't like the little wheel look. If u do, knock yourself out. As for ride, the roads where I live are good, so no need for me to downsize for comfort. If I still lived in New York, I might feel differently.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I do not know what the weight gain from the Recaro seats is but likely more the seat than the heaters as I have a set of seat heaters from the company that makes most of the ones for car manfs here in the US, they weight 2-3 lbs, per pair, at the most. Sunroofs have additional bracing, rails, motors, glass, sliding cover, I would imagine 20-25lbs added weight and I wish mine did not have one at times but needed it for the doggies on warmer days when they have to stay in the car at times. I am going to do a thin peal and stick solar panel and add a couple of fans for them and well as a hatch prop that locks.

That said, huge list of mods, my car still was down to 2575 the last time I put it on my scales, I think it might be a bit less now and I know I have moved around 50lbs from front to back to help balance it out for hard braking on track.

Wheel style can make some wheels look bigger, some smaller, the Helix 15x9 in black look like 16's, the 6ul in 15x8 in black look more like 15's.

I will always be a big fan and promoter of lower weight wheels and if that means smaller diameter because that is what works then I have to go that way, I have had 18's on race cars because it was the best on the particular car and build.

To each their own if fine by me, as long as they understand what the ramifications of their decisions mean but many just do not know and follow the trend instead of learning what the real differences are.

I will gladly give any member a ride in my car and let them feel how it rides and then how it corners, stops, accelerates, and if they are into performance will understand why I do the things I do and avidly promote that others consider some of them

 

[Plainrt]

May I ask the advantage of running 17s vs 16s or 15s?

 

[RAAMaudio]

On this particular car it is mainly style.

Big wheels, low weight car, rubber band tires, ride harsh, can have very quick response and road feel but only a few tires fit.

Smaller wheels, less weight, less cost, including tires, better ride, could give up a tad bit of response, possibly a bit less road feel but certainly more grip, all things being as equal as much more fun actually driving the car if you are into performance than what you get with stiff short sidewall tires on heavy wheels.

It is all in the physics, so far nobody has proven that theory wrong.

 

[Plainrt]

Couldn't agree more. When I switched from 17s to 16s I could believe how much better I liked it. I love the 15s even more and get a ton of compliments on it.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Though I did not setup my car for looks it gets looked at a lot more than expected and even gets compliments while driving past people and out of hundreds of lookers, complimenters, etc, not one single person has asked about my "little 15" wheels, instead they say how cool they look

 

[dyn085]

Looks are subjective. I'll take this-

Over this any day-

Nobody is wrong for not liking little wheels; nobody is wrong for liking little wheels.

 

[BronxBomber]

Looks are subjective. I'll take this-

Over this any day-

Nobody is wrong for not liking little wheels; nobody is wrong for liking little wheels.

Totally agree with you. I guess we're in the minority, at least on this particular thread. If going all out track, I suppose I could go he 15" route for maximum lightness. As a street car, which is what mine is, I have to like what my car looks like, otherwise I may as well buy a beater and make it into a stripped out track car. I am not trying to sway anybody one way or the other. Rather just explaining why I prefer 17" to 15" for a street car. This is the stock wheel size on this car. I don't see mustang, corvette, even civics that are modded for track use going smaller. I will be tracking my car later this year. Eventually I will be converting to 4x100 bolt pattern and going the 6ul route, but i will be going with the 17x8 set up. This set up is only 14lbs, so it's already significantly lighter than the stock set up and Wilwood brake set up will fit. This is my preference though. Again, it's great the we have options.