x37-47 / 2554-60 / C39 / ST280 - Small Turbo Comparison Thread

[WeTheNorth]

Thanks for the shout out on my YouTube channel I am a fan of all the hybrid turbos. I especially can't wait to be driving around with the x47 paired with the built engine. When my car is up and running you can expect another video review of the new turbo and my impressions of it.

Right on man! I enjoy watching your videos, Very detailed and relatable. I mean don't get me wrong , I used to enjoy the Adam LZ videos but once you stop relating, it's boring asf! You must be stoked


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ish]

Airmass doesn?t need to be logged in order to tune a vehicle, this is not an Airmass based vehicle. The Focus ST uses Airmass as an x-axis on the WGDC table to determine a cross section with exhaust fractor to spit out a WGDC%.

The Fiesta is a feed forward system and uses commanded WG canister pressure versus exhaust fractor to determine WGDC.

Airmass is inferred on the Fiesta ST and is not an exact measurement. It can measure how much air is being pulled in, but how much the turbo puts out is inferred based on many things.

The only true person that will know Airmass in lb/min for the turbo is the person that manufacturers it. You can take a guess and say 30lbs/min based on your power output but that is based off an old theory of each lb/min of airflow = 10hp. So 30 x 10 = 300hp. But, this is just an old frame of reference and isn?t accurate.

You won?t ever get a lb/min from the manufacturer that is accurate as they will never build a compressor map for the turbo, I can almost guarantee that.

Thought Id share this info..

 

[Crooked Letta]

Airmass doesn?t need to be logged in order to tune a vehicle, this is not an Airmass based vehicle. The Focus ST uses Airmass as an x-axis on the WGDC table to determine a cross section with exhaust fractor to spit out a WGDC%.

The Fiesta is a feed forward system and uses commanded WG canister pressure versus exhaust fractor to determine WGDC.

Airmass is inferred on the Fiesta ST and is not an exact measurement. It can measure how much air is being pulled in, but how much the turbo puts out is inferred based on many things.

The only true person that will know Airmass in lb/min for the turbo is the person that manufacturers it. You can take a guess and say 30lbs/min based on your power output but that is based off an old theory of each lb/min of airflow = 10hp. So 30 x 10 = 300hp. But, this is just an old frame of reference and isn?t accurate.

You won?t ever get a lb/min from the manufacturer that is accurate as they will never build a compressor map for the turbo, I can almost guarantee that.

Thought Id share this info..

Isn't the FiST a speed density vehicle? If so, you can kind of say air mass is inferred but all speed density vehicles are. This isn't a diesel and air mass is the only way to calculate fuel properly, if the AFR's are correct and the fuel trims are correct then the air mass measurement is accurate.

 

[MisSTrouble]

Isn't the FiST a speed density vehicle? If so, you can kind of say air mass is inferred but all speed density vehicles are. This isn't a diesel and air mass is the only way to calculate fuel properly, if the AFR's are correct and the fuel trims are correct then the air mass measurement is accurate.

Copied from Stratified on their FB page: "Keep in mind that airflow is inferred from the volumetric efficiency tables and map sensor reading. With a bigger turbo these tables can be thrown off. To get more accurate airflow numbers normalize these by the STFT and LTFT trims at the same RPM and boost."

 

[Crooked Letta]

Copied from Stratified on their FB page: "Keep in mind that airflow is inferred from the volumetric efficiency tables and map sensor reading. With a bigger turbo these tables can be thrown off. To get more accurate airflow numbers normalize these by the STFT and LTFT trims at the same RPM and boost."

Yes this is exactly how a Speed density system works, this is why anytime you change things like an intake manifold it needs to be tuned for volume.

That statement is kind of what I said just in my general knowledge terms. Basically there is no "Air mass" sensor, it is calculated using algorithms based on volume temperature and pressure to calculate mass. Checking fuel trims is basically a self check that the calculated air flow is correct, aka rich or lean beyond I believe 13% would set a code from targeted AFR.

 

[vegaspyder]

Ok folks. Here is graph from the same dyno AND same time so all variables are the same, and even the same tuner (Tune+).

This shows where the x-47 compares to the X-37 until you add auxiliary fuel since there is more left in the X-47, but no more fuel to give it.

*Note- disregard the faster spool. I didn't start the dyno til about 2500, but Anttrain started his at about 2000 rpm, which actually yielded him about 5 more tq than his other runs, which were about 310 tq so I'd guess I could pull about 5 more also if I did the same.

Both running catless and 2.5" exhausts. I have a cpe Intake, but I opened the box so it would be just like an Injen which I had previously. He has the Mishimoto intake. We are both running turbo smart WG and he has the GFB. I have stock valve.

I have the DHM race intercooler and Mountune hot side pipe. He has the map intercooler and I think he has piping...Not sure.

Both E30

 

[Ish]

Ok folks. Here is graph from the same dyno AND same time so all variables are the same, and even the same tuner (Tune+).

This shows where the x-47 compares to the X-37 until you add auxiliary fuel since there is more left in the X-47, but no more fuel to give it.

*Note- disregard the faster spool. I didn't start the dyno til about 2500, but Anttrain started his at about 2000 rpm, which actually yielded him about 5 more tq than his other runs, which were about 310 tq so I'd guess I could pull about 5 more also if I did the same.

Both running catless and 2.5" exhausts. I have a cpe Intake, but I opened the box so it would be just like an Injen which I had previously. He has the Mishimoto intake. We are both running turbo smart WG and he has the GFB. I have stock valve.

I have the DHM race intercooler and Mountune hot side pipe. He has the map intercooler and I think he has piping...Not sure.

Both E30

Nice! My x47 feels almost the same as my x37 but with more top. Anyway, what spring rate are you running on your iwg?

 

[vegaspyder]

Nice! My x47 feels almost the same as my x37 but with more top. Anyway, what spring rate are you running on your iwg?

I'm running the tune+ one which is 7 or 11. Anttrain has the stronger spring one.

 

[Ish]

I'm running the tune+ one which is 7 or 11. Anttrain has the stronger spring one.

Ahh ok. I gotta get myself the 11psi spring. Im currently on the 17psi that i got for my x37 and its overkill on the x47..

 

[vegaspyder]

Ahh ok. I gotta get myself the 11psi spring. Im currently on the 17psi that i got for my x37 and its overkill on the x47..

What is it doing that's overkill? I was wondering if I should have the stiffer spring. Haha

 

[Fiestarawpower]

So a difference of 5hp and 14ftlbs tq. Doesn't the x37 also run out of fuel on e30 as well?

 

[vegaspyder]

So a difference of 5hp and 14ftlbs tq. Doesn't the x37 also run out of fuel on e30 as well?

I think the difference is more like 5/10 because like I said if I would have started the dyno earlier like the X-47 I think I'd have pulled another 5tq like he did when he tried starting earlier. Not a big difference either way.

Hmm, not sure on the x-37 running out of fuel. I've never heard of anyone adding aux fuel to get more so I figured that was about topped out for it. I'll ask the tuner. At $800 plus tuning for aux fuel I don't know that there would be enough power left to be worth that much money for the X-37.

 

[vegaspyder]

Also! The only real change I did since my last dyno to the car was switch from an Injen to a CPE intake (I took the box lid off for the dyno so it really is the same and shouldn't make a difference) and I added a FSwerks Cat-back and a revised tune. I gained nothing in peak numbers and the graphs looked pretty much identical to my previous dyno.

So i conclude that a cat-back does nothing for a hybrid.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[Goingnowherefast]

Wow, WAY closer results than I expected.

 

[Ish]

What is it doing that's overkill? I was wondering if I should have the stiffer spring. Haha

The x47 would overboost with that 17psi spring vs the x37 it worked completely fine.

 

[Fiestarawpower]

[MENTION=4033]Ish[/MENTION] did your x37 run out of fuel on the top when you had it on e30?

 

[AntTrain]

I have the 8lb spring and mountune charge piping fyi.

 

[Goingnowherefast]

Did the install on my X37 last night while I was on third shift. I was able to do it from 1am-5am. Like half of that was dealing with the bitch of a heatshield. Hindsight is 20/20 but I would have removed both coolant lines and brackets before attempting to take off the heat shield. But whatever, all things considered the install wasn't too bad (was surprised at how little torque the manifold nuts take). Here's my first V-dyno of the base tune from DHM. Mods below...

Fully Ported and Polished X37 + Manifold.
CP-E Intake
Depo IC
Depo DP
CP-E Nexus Cat-back
205/50/15 Star Specs
93 Octane
DHM Rev 1

Both runs are same road back to back, different directions.

 

[WeTheNorth]

Link is broken bud


Sent from my CIA monitored device

 

[Goingnowherefast]

Link is broken bud


Sent from my CIA monitored device

Fixed