x37-47 / 2554-60 / C39 / ST280 - Small Turbo Comparison Thread

[Tune+]

I think you guys would have to agree that I've been pretty respectful of the X37 and not bashed it or been critical of anything to do with it.
And I'll continue to do so.
But I do want to bring up something because I'm positive almost no one is aware of this, and I wanted to bring it to light to help X37 users out. This is a fact. Some may feel its good idea to correct it, some may feel its not worth the trouble or bit of money. I'll leave that upto you guys. So here we go...

The stock turbine wheel 32mm by 38mm.
The stock exhaust manifold outlet is 33mm and the stock turbine exhaust inlet is 35mm. This is was not the end or the world for ford to use small ports like this because it matches the stock turbine size and stock compressor wheel flow capabilities in general.

That being said... With Pumaspeed upping the compressor wheel by 8mm and upping the turbine wheel another 5mm you end up feeding a 38mm by 43mm turbine wheel ( appox ) with a bottle necked manifold outlet and pinched turbine inlet, both of which are smaller than the turbine wheel.

Its not the end of the world or anything, but... If you really want to push an X37, it maybe worth your time to consider it.
I cores on manifolds and could have a week or less turn around time on porting your turbine in most cases.

Just something for you guys to be aware of. Not trying to steal any business or make any claims, just thought I'd put that info out there so people are aware and if they want to do something about it, my options are pretty reasonable. And... If you don't want to use me as a solution, you can be prepared yourself to remedy these flow restrictions yourself before your new turbo shows up.
But just be very aware, I spend 12+ hours on a turbine/manifold port job for an internal wastegate setup. And I'm extremely used to doing these.

This also applies to guys with ATP kits. Manifolds still have a 33mm output feeding 53mm turbine wheel, and I'd match the adaptor for free if you send it.

Stock

About where I take them.

ATP guys wonder why they can't match aftermarket manifolds with response...

Where are you getting your Comp/Turbine wheel measurements from? They aren't accurate.

Also, besides the measurement that you provided where is your BP data to prove any benefit to your performed work? It would definitely be interesting to see a before and after the service to see if there would be any benefit to it for the X37. So far, I see no need for it. Remember when the wastegate is open it is sharing BP_AF.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Old school guy here, I always think porting is a good thing to do, maybe not really needed in this case, I do not have the experience to know as only had a few turbo cars as have been an NA guy most of my 48 years of playing with cars.

Anything that helps the pathetic stock power curve or tuned stock curve is a bonus if it works

 

[15performanceblue]

I still have the waste gate in the turbo, but I have the turbosmart wg actuator. I had the denso plugs from tune+ installed at the same time as the turbo. I'm at around 21psi max right now. I've just been super lazy with running logs and I'm honestly trying to find a place closer to home that I can do a third gear pull without attracting too much attention. I get tired of having to drive out to the country lol.

Got ya! I love the external waste gate, it is so loud and the sound is awesome. Haha. I got my plugs in and my first revision, only on 17 psi, but man does the car pull and feel better than ever. I am going to get a log tonight, but I can tell you this. On my old E30 tune 17 psi of boost the waste gate didnt sound as good, and I had ZERO corrections, on Adam's tune I am getting positive 5.0 corrections and it just feels great. Hoping it stays this way with increased boost.

 

[Sourskittle]

Where are you getting your Comp/Turbine wheel measurements from? They aren't accurate.

Also, besides the measurement that you provided where is your BP data to prove any benefit to your performed work? It would definitely be interesting to see a before and after the service to see if there would be any benefit to it for the X37. So far, I see no need for it. Remember when the wastegate is open it is sharing BP_AF.

I'm not arguing or even debating any of this with you... Ford shares the wastegate with its 32/38mm turbine wheel as well. 33mm outlet, 32/38mm turbine. Only makes sense to remove the bottle neck.

I didn't make the post to debate or even to sell anything, I made it purely for people that have common sense to do what ever they want, which includes fixing it themselves.

People wonder why an ATP kit has less response. Its got a 2" inlet into the turbo and its being feed by a 33mm whole.

Like I said, people can do what they want with that info. They can rush through an upgrade and left power/response on the table, they can take the time to correct it themselves, or they can have me do it. I'm swamped so its no skin off my chicken. But lets not have an informational post turn into a waste of our time.

If you want to run a million datalogs and collect ants in your spare time, go for it. Spend 6 hours porting a manifold, then spend another 6 hours porting a turbine housing on a X37 and let me know what you find. Until that point, logic dictates that a 30% bottle neck right in the middle of the flow of a manifold on a ATP setup is going to cost something.

Ask an other car group.... "Hey, what spools faster, and short runner cast manifold, or a long runner tubular manifold". Then tell me why ATP customers complain about response and DHM tubular guys have better response. Bet the DHM manifold doesn't have a 33mm outlet.

So log, calculate, quantify what ever you want.... Nothing will change the fact that smoother curves, shaved radius's, and removed bottle necks will improve response and likely power.

I have had one ATP guy install one of my manifolds, but he was too rushed to send me the adaptor to port match for free. Which.... Was a big mistake. But I understood him being impatient. But I'd rather do all that once and know it was good as it could be vs rushing, getting it on, tuning it, and then a week later think, "man... I should have took the time and the little bit on money and done it right, now there is potential left on the table And its a great deal of work to correct it".

And this was never directed at the X37. Its directed at all modified stock turbos and anything else that uses the stock manifold. And again... Anyone and everyone is encouraged to do this themselves.

 

[Tune+]

I'm not arguing or even debating any of this with you... Ford shares the wastegate with its 32/38mm turbine wheel as well. 33mm outlet, 32/38mm turbine. Only makes sense to remove the bottle neck.

I didn't make the post to debate or even to sell anything, I made it purely for people that have common sense to do what ever they want, which includes fixing it themselves.

People wonder why an ATP kit has less response. Its got a 2" inlet into the turbo and its being feed by a 33mm whole.

Like I said, people can do what they want with that info. They can rush through an upgrade and left power/response on the table, they can take the time to correct it themselves, or they can have me do it. I'm swamped so its no skin off my chicken. But lets not have an informational post turn into a waste of our time.

If you want to run a million datalogs and collect ants in your spare time, go for it. Spend 6 hours porting a manifold, then spend another 6 hours porting a turbine housing on a X37 and let me know what you find. Until that point, logic dictates that a 30% bottle neck right in the middle of the flow of a manifold on a ATP setup is going to cost something.

Ask an other car group.... "Hey, what spools faster, and short runner cast manifold, or a long runner tubular manifold". Then tell me why ATP customers complain about response and DHM tubular guys have better response. Bet the DHM manifold doesn't have a 33mm outlet.

So log, calculate, quantify what ever you want.... Nothing will change the fact that smoother curves, shaved radius's, and removed bottle necks will improve response and likely power.

I have had one ATP guy install one of my manifolds, but he was too rushed to send me the adaptor to port match for free. Which.... Was a big mistake. But I understood him being impatient. But I'd rather do all that once and know it was good as it could be vs rushing, getting it on, tuning it, and then a week later think, "man... I should have took the time and the little bit on money and done it right, now there is potential left on the table And its a great deal of work to correct it".

And this was never directed at the X37. Its directed at all modified stock turbos and anything else that uses the stock manifold. And again... Anyone and everyone is encouraged to do this themselves.

Not arguing with you, just want you to make sure that you aren't wasting 12 hours of your time for nothing. It make sense on the ATP turbos, which is why I don't recommend them at all. If you need anything bigger than stock frame you need a real manifold and downpipe, not something that is just made because "it fits, kinda".

If you have proven results, that would be awesome, but based on the vehicles I'm tuning there are no bottlenecks in the system with the stock manifold and turbine housing. This is proven with BP/AF data and power results.

 

[Sourskittle]

Turns out.... A 12" wide tire hooks better than a 7" wide tire. Better run both just to make sure... Logic escapes.

 

[Tune+]

Turns out.... A 12" wide tire hooks better than a 7" wide tire. Better run both just to make sure... Logic escapes.

There are less convoluted ways to say you don't have the information I was looking for. However, because you want to talk about tires what happens when you have 0 slip ratio with a 12" wide radial and the 7" wide has a more desirable slip ratio for a better launch? I mean, if you want some data I have some data.

https://www.hondata.com/help/tractioncontrol/index.html?theory_of_operation.htm

Now, I mean that is data to be input into a traction control system (similar to the one I have been beta testing for Cobb for awhile now and they released today) but on a vehicle without such luxuries you have to obtain optimal slip mechanically with suspension and tires. So maybe a 10, or 8, or 7 inch tire will suit the vehicle better, but in order to make the right decision you have to collect proper data....

I'm just busting your chops, but again there are less convoluted ways to state you have theory but no hard evidence. Up until a week ago everyone though a 3.5" intake with a conical open element filter at the end of it made more power on a 3.5" inlet 7670EFR turbo versus a 3.5" pipe going into a stock airbox. However I proved it wrong with theory and recorded information. Which I just so happened to do live on Facebook.

 

[Perfblue15]

From what I've seen to date PumaSpeed's X-37 would still definitely be my preference as a DD...

Personally I haven't been impressed with any "quick spool" turbo kits I've reviewed so far

I 100% agree. I'm not impressed with the quickspool kit (currently on my car) and the atp kit was a joke. (Lag for days when compared to the DHM kit) The only turbo that seems to spool and make power is the X37. Unfortunately the X37 seems to tap out @300whp.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[StayPuft]

I 100% agree. I'm not impressed with the quickspool kit (currently on my car) and the atp kit was a joke. (Lag for days when compared to the DHM kit) The only turbo that seems to spool and make power is the X37. Unfortunately the X37 seems to tap out @300whp.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

You're the first one I've read to say this. I assume you're happy with the power but not the lag?

 

[Perfblue15]

You're the first one I've read to say this. I assume you're happy with the power but not the lag?

I love the power. It's off the hook compared to the atp set up i had previously. The car is just really laggy and it's the first thing anyone that drives it notices. I've owned all v8 cars previous to my fiesta st so I'm used to a lot of bottom end power. My car kicks ass in its current configuration I just miss torque.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

 

[alphanumeric]

The car is just really laggy and it's the first thing anyone that drives it notices.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

I wish I had the opportunity to drive some of these other Fiesta's before getting my turbo upgrade. I'm all over the place with what I want. Cyborg or X37 seem the most likely but I'm just wondering if I'm going to immediately want more power. I want power but I don't want it to lose its fun.

 

[WeTheNorth]

Adam stop killing threads

 

[TURBO BLACK]

talked with alex at stratified and he told me on the phone he would tune cyborg turbo's.

 

[Sourskittle]

talked with alex at stratified and he told me on the phone he would tune cyborg turbo's.

I'm sure Alex has the skill. He has talked to me many times about it and helped me out personally tuning my car once or twice.

But for some reason or another, one of the most promenade fist tuners ( Stratified ) has never tuned a cyborg that I'm aware of.

And... Randy (Mountune )has told me he would tune a cyborg for $400 as well. Yet.... Despite his rally and oem tune experience, no one has went that route either...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[re-rx7]

I'll be tuning my cyborg at Cobb in Plano. Interesting results upcoming.

 

[BronxBomber]

Looking forward to seeing and hearing your results. I'm in the middle of my tuning session with Adam. So far the turbo is feeling really good. Still have to tune for E-30. Hey Bryan [MENTION=688]Sourskittle[/MENTION], how much boost should I be seeing on 93 Oct?

 

[Rhinopolis]

I wish I had the opportunity to drive some of these other Fiesta's before getting my turbo upgrade. I'm all over the place with what I want. Cyborg or X37 seem the most likely but I'm just wondering if I'm going to immediately want more power. I want power but I don't want it to lose its fun.

I posted a video on my YouTube channel recently and under "Mr. Rhinopolis", and if you skip to 4:20 in to the video (I talk way too much in my videos) then you can jump right to the action.

Perhaps what I do in that video will give you a metric that you can use to decide if a hybrid turbo is enough power for what you are wanting out of your ST?

 

[Sourskittle]

Looking forward to seeing and hearing your results. I'm in the middle of my tuning session with Adam. So far the turbo is feeling really good. Still have to tune for E-30. Hey Bryan [MENTION=688]Sourskittle[/MENTION], how much boost should I be seeing on 93 Oct?

Honestly.... In this FL heat? I really don't know... I NEVER ran 93oct. The few times I did, I quickly cut-bait and switches back to E30-E50. 93oct requires a more steady hand on the tuning side of things. A good pro-tuner is way more qualified to answer that. The answer is complicated by what kind of timing your trying to run and how well ( or not well ) your intercooler is dealing with 100+ degree temps and heavy humidity.

At least 24psi. 26psi is around what I was running during my poor attempts at 93oct tuning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BronxBomber]

Ok. Just curious. I'm on my 5th revision on 93 and it feels healthy. Boost is just at 23psi maximum. I was just wondering if it should be higher. Car definitely feels faster than on stock turbo with e30. Thanks Bryan.

 

[re-rx7]

I plan on doing a straight 93 tune and a 93 e20-25 tune. I've had good experiences at Cobb in Plano with tuning in the past. Hoping to make 215-220whp on pump 93.