Daily drivers with performance

[antarctica24]

Ah, the personal insult phase.

There have been multiple ST's and other Ecoboost platforms that have dyno'ed a significant amount over stock. None had ~160k, but you've yet to post a single datalog so nobody knows anything about your car/tune but numbers. Good corrected numbers though, lol, I'll bet your throttle closures look awesome.

I think the 160K mileage says a couple of things. One the car is very reliable. Two, obviously the compression seems to be holding. I did also pickup another .5 mpg after the stage one shelf tune from cobb. I am not questioning your data. I am questioning your assumptions about what the data told you in regards to the industry as a whole.

Ok, we can do that. I have zero experience on the dataaccess port. As you can see, I didnt even load the tune yesterday, that was done by the guy at National Speed. They are a Cobb certified tuning center with the pro-tune stuff. All of my tuning experience is using HP Tuners. What would you like me to data log? I give my nods to you on your experience with using the access port.

I am curious where are all of these Ford Fiesta ST's making stouts of power over their rated power on a real dyno? Virtual dyno's don't count. A virtual dyno is either using an accelerometer with mercury or data taken from the computer. A real dyno is using power created by the wheels to spin a drum. They are not the same thing, and 20 runs on 20 different cars, back to back using a real dyno and virtual dyno will not produce the same results between them. A virtual dyno is a great weight guessing machine, you can come close but it is not as good as getting on a scale.

And that comes from National Speed. Not Me. They are considered one of the premier tuning/shops in the country, Don't want to believe me, look it up. So who do I believe? They guy who has tuned and data logged his fiesta, focus, and fusion, or the company that has national recognition? This is a shop that sells performance and the same guy who said I don't need an bigger turbo. There were over 5 1000hp cars at the shop yesterday with 1 CTS-V making 1200hp.

The more you try to worse you look. I don't care that my car doesn't make 300hp with bolt on's. I only cared that it made more power than stock without a tune just to prove your wrong. People like you make it so complicated for people who just want to have fun with their cars by making gross assumptions without any empirical data and that is what you did.

 

[antarctica24]

You have an aftermarket FMIC. That, in and of itself, will keep preserve the timing due to the cooler charge temps. This is factored into our MAP-based tune in the timing compensations. You can qualify it as a gain if you would like but I prefer to consider it a preservation of the original power. I've said this multiple times.

So again, post your datalog showing your throttle closures or at least try to comment on the one that I posted. Your load is going to have the same limits as stock because it's not a MAF-based tune and once you hit them your throttle will close to keep you from making more power. Go ahead, datalog it for yourself.

Dude, I give, you just cant fix stupid.

 

[dyn085]

I think the 160K mileage says a couple of things. One the car is very reliable. Two, obviously the compression seems to be holding. I did also pickup another .5 mpg after the stage one shelf tune from cobb. I am not questioning your data. I am questioning your assumptions about what the data told you in regards to the industry as a whole.

Ok, we can do that. I have zero experience on the dataaccess port. As you can see, I didnt even load the tune yesterday, that was done by the guy at National Speed. They are a Cobb certified tuning center with the pro-tune stuff. All of my tuning experience is using HP Tuners. What would you like me to data log? I give my nods to you on your experience with using the access port.

I am curious where are all of these Ford Fiesta ST's making stouts of power over their rated power on a real dyno? Virtual dyno's don't count. A virtual dyno is either using an accelerometer with mercury or data taken from the computer. A real dyno is using power created by the wheels to spin a drum. They are not the same thing, and 20 runs on 20 different cars, back to back using a real dyno and virtual dyno will not produce the same results between them. A virtual dyno is a great weight guessing machine, you can come close but it is not as good as getting on a scale.

And that comes from National Speed. Not Me. They are considered one of the premier tuning/shops in the country, Don't want to believe me, look it up. So who do I believe? They guy who has tuned and data logged his fiesta, focus, and fusion, or the company that has national recognition? This is a shop that sells performance and the same guy who said I don't need an bigger turbo. There were over 5 1000hp cars at the shop yesterday with 1 CTS-V making 1200hp.

The more you try to worse you look. I don't care that my car doesn't make 300hp with bolt on's. I only cared that it made more power than stock without a tune just to prove your wrong. People like you make it so complicated for people who just want to have fun with their cars by making gross assumptions without any empirical data and that is what you did.

Just log using the default parameters and post your results. Drive to where you plan on datalogging, press the center button, do your run, then press the center button again. Load it up to Datazap.me or post the .csv file here along with your assessment of what you're seeing.

 

[antarctica24]

From Mishimoto on this very forum:
"Although the ST is a MAP-based vehicle, the MAF unit is still in place to read temperature. Our intake design will need to incorporate a MAF flange to accept the factory unit. An easy task completed for many of our intake systems."

Direct from COBB on the other main ecoboost based vehicle the FoST
http://fordstnation.com/cobb-tuning/2189-cobb-initial-focus-st-r-d-findings.html
Unless you don't think COBB is a reputable tuner:
"Intake R&D Results (Stage1) Welcome to Speed Density, or, in other words, this is not a MAZDASPEED3! The factory air metering system uses three MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensors and does not incorporate the MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensors found on many of today’s modern vehicles."


"I'm thinking you really should have to have some kind of proof of your expertise before being allowed to just chime in on this forum" - You.

Did you read the whole article? What is the date on the article? You have all got this backwards. If the MAF was only reading temperature, why not just stick a thermometer in the pipe? As I said to Dyn085, You just cant fix stupid.

 

[dyn085]

Dude, I give, you just cant fix stupid.

I agree, but I'm still trying to help you anyways. Post and assess your data and let's just see what you and other people think. Maybe you can learn, maybe you'll still be convinced of your irrelevant past-experience with a completely different platform.

 

[Hijinx]

And that comes from National Speed. Not Me. They are considered one of the premier tuning/shops in the country, Don't want to believe me, look it up. So who do I believe? They guy who has tuned and data logged his fiesta, focus, and fusion, or the company that has national recognition? This is a shop that sells performance and the same guy who said I don't need an bigger turbo. There were over 5 1000hp cars at the shop yesterday with 1 CTS-V making 1200hp.

The more you try to worse you look. I don't care that my car doesn't make 300hp with bolt on's. I only cared that it made more power than stock without a tune just to prove your wrong. People like you make it so complicated for people who just want to have fun with their cars by making gross assumptions without any empirical data and that is what you did.

I believe people with experience on the platform.

I can't once recall Dyn telling people his way is how t should be done.

 

[Hijinx]

I'm not saying I'm leaving, but the amount of ignorance and misinformation is becoming overwhelming. I don't even know why I'm here anymore.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[Wimp Lo]

You are using the MAP tables because at 30lbs of boost you are over 2 atmospheres and he MAF sensor cant read that high.

Look at where our MAF sensor is and tell me how much boost pressure it sees.

Luckily since our car is factory turbocharged, the sensors are in the right position so we don't have to monkey around trying to make stupid things like a MAF sensor after a supercharger work.

I can't tell you exactly why our engine has a MAF sensor despite its speed density injection strategy because I think it is weird but my guess is that they use MAF injection strategy in Europe and decided to use the same intake in North American cars, kept the MAF sensor to fill the hole and used it as an IAT sensor because it is there.

 

[Hijinx]

Here's something that might blow antarcticas mind... My BOV is on the cold side AND it's open at idle.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[dyn085]

Came to view datalogs; found none.

Seems how I'm such a newb to the platform, I decided to come make sure I could properly calibrate my MAF sensor. Obviously there would be a calibration for it due to its significance in a MAF-based tune...maybe it's just not located in the Sensor Calibrations folder?

Maybe I'm just trying too hard to fix stupid, which clearly can't be fixed.

 

[Hijinx]

It sure got quiet.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[antarctica24]

Look at where our MAF sensor is and tell me how much boost pressure it sees.

Luckily since our car is factory turbocharged, the sensors are in the right position so we don't have to monkey around trying to make stupid things like a MAF sensor after a supercharger work.

I can't tell you exactly why our engine has a MAF sensor despite its speed density injection strategy because I think it is weird but my guess is that they use MAF injection strategy in Europe and decided to use the same intake in North American cars, kept the MAF sensor to fill the hole and used it as an IAT sensor because it is there.

All cars after 1986 have MAF sensors and before long all cars will have nothing but MAF sensors. MAF sensor doesn't read boost. It reads the density of air not air pressure. The MAF sensor is there to read everything below 10psi or so. Then the MAP takes over to read pressures above what the MAP cant read and relies on the static fuel tables. There are those here that have a different opinion and they are entitled to that opinion. I do know for a fact that Ford and GM are working on MAF sensors to read much more amounts of air to do away with the MAP sensors all together. Why? Because a map sensor cannot adjust for altitude. That's why someone at sea level on a map tune has to change their tune when they are not at sea level. One simple test you can do to prove this, is unplug your MAF sensor and try to drive your car, not full pedal, just try to drive it around. Your not going to be able to. You could disconnect every map sensor on the car, and it will still drive. You will get codes, but the MAP sensors are only used for monitoring temperature and pressure above what the MAF cannot read. When people are tuning this thing, they spend all their time working on the fuel tables. Why? Because you are adjusting for Air/Fuel mixture. The car drives fine under 10psi. It's when you get into heavy boost that you have to make your corrections. My Trans Am, had a Map sensor, but with the 822RWHP I was making I was doing it on 15psi. So the MAF could read about 80% of the air and make corrections after we adjusted the VE table. Then I bought a 2 bar MAP and did a speed density tune, and it works great provided you stay in the general area. If you change the altitude it messes with the Tune and you have to retune for where you are. Its ok. I'm good with dropping it. Hijinx thinks I have no experience and I am ok with that. Its not worth the argument.

 

[Wimp Lo]

The difference between true and false is not an opinion.

 

[Hijinx]

What I said is not what you understood.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[dyn085]

So I've posted a datalog and the Sensor Calibrations folder and both have missed their target (or, at least, were blatantly ignored). Seems how we're talking about fueling and how it's related to the MAF sensor, here is the Closed Loop Fueling Base from the OTS V221 map.

The breakpoints must be related to airflow because of the MAF, right?

Nah. Again, it's a load-based tune.

 

[antarctica24]

The difference between true and false is not an opinion.

You have the power to prove me wrong. Get your video out camera out open your hood, press record, disconnect your MAF sensor and start your car, and then try and drive around. Seems simple to me. No Data Logging Required. If this is a MAP ONLY based tuned vehicle, then that MAF does nothing and your car should drive around like a champ without it.

 

[Hijinx]

I'm detecting a hint of minced words and the scent of a man walking on the fine line of a failing argument as he rustles straw.


Scent from Glade Air Freshener

 

[dyn085]

You have the power to prove me wrong. Get your video out camera out open your hood, press record, disconnect your MAF sensor and start your car, and then try and drive around. Seems simple to me. No Data Logging Required. If this is a MAP ONLY based tuned vehicle, then that MAF does nothing and your car should drive around like a champ without it.

I'm pretty confident that you have yet to do your own test. Seems how you can't seem to respond to any of my posts, here-

 

[antarctica24]

I'm pretty confident that you have yet to do your own test. Seems how you can't seem to respond to any of my posts, here-

[/QUOTE

Sorry about that, It looks like what I am looking at here is a picture of the MAF unplugged. Correct? So leave it unplugged and start your car up and drive around with the video recording.

 

[Hijinx]

It doesn't occur to me that this "test" actually proves anything for Antarctica. If the car responds poorly, it only proves that it needs a MAF to run smoothly.


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