Knock but No Negative Corrections (Data Logs) Opinions

[Lizzardmax]

We'll I guess that sounded wrong. I meant for those data logs... I assure you I am not insane. Ha. But yes when at 3k ish 6th moving with traffic (yes sometimes around 80), Down shift into 5th medium to full throttle, tach-up a bit and drive like normal... if a bit quick, I get logs like those.

 

[twolf]

[MENTION=4567]Ryephile[/MENTION] [MENTION=2537]Lizzardmax[/MENTION]

http://datazap.me/u/timwolf1gmailcom/3rd-gear-march-29-1?log=0&data=0-2-5-8-11-12-13-14-20-21-22-23

 

[dyn085]

[MENTION=4567]Ryephile[/MENTION] [MENTION=2537]Lizzardmax[/MENTION]

http://datazap.me/u/timwolf1gmailcom/3rd-gear-march-29-1?log=0&data=0-2-5-8-11-12-13-14-20-21-22-23

Not entirely horrible, minus the OEM CAT increase and huge throttle closures. It's crazy seeing so many people logging both ignition corrections and knock counts. It's nice seeing a tune that isn't shooting into the overspeed territory though.

 

[twolf]

Not entirely horrible, minus the OEM CAT increase and huge throttle closures. It's crazy seeing so many people logging both ignition corrections and knock counts. It's nice seeing a tune that isn't shooting into the overspeed territory though.

Help me understand this more

OEM CAT increase? Edit: charge air temp, ah. I need to get my DHM cooler on.

Throttle closures?

 

[Hijinx]

Help me understand this more

OEM CAT increase? Edit: charge air temp, ah. I need to get my DHM cooler on.

Throttle closures?

Throttle closes to help control boost. ETC Actual.

 

[dyn085]

Help me understand this more

OEM CAT increase? Edit: charge air temp, ah. I need to get my DHM cooler on.

Throttle closures?

Correct, charge air temp.

Throttle closures=ETC angle, which is the angle of your throttle blade. Despite being at 100% accelerator pedal input, you have less than 82 degrees (full-open) for a portion of your pull. Basically, you probably hit your load limit so the throttle snapped closer to shut.

 

[twolf]

Throttle closes to help control boost. ETC Actual.

Hrmm. I wonder if this is because I'm running a catless downpipe on a tune not set up for it.

Is there a negative to the throttle closures? I can't "feel" it.

 

[dyn085]

Hrmm. I wonder if this is because I'm running a catless downpipe on a tune not set up for it.

Is there a negative to the throttle closures?

On a load-based tune, no. That's what keeps power consistent. You have to raise your load limits above what you can hit to be on a boost-based tune.

 

[twolf]

On a load-based tune, no. That's what keeps power consistent. You have to raise your load limits above what you can hit to be on a boost-based tune.

So you'd say there's nothing to worry about?

I should be getting my IC on this weekend and dyno tuned either same day or shortly after, I'll be sure to update.

 

[dyn085]

No, there's nothing to worry about. You could be making more power, but there's nothing wrong.

 

[Hijinx]

Hrmm. I wonder if this is because I'm running a catless downpipe on a tune not set up for it.

Is there a negative to the throttle closures?

So, there are two ways to control boost, the main being WGDC (wastegate duty cycle). Throttle closures are, I believe, to mitigate spikes that WGDC can't react to as quickly. I haven't seen anyone significantly impacted by it. The worst thing I know of is that you'll feel/hear it if it's closing enough. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, I'm going off what I've experienced and seen around the forums.

 

[twolf]

I do occasionally get a little surge, but I thought that was related to the WG. My tuner sent me a map that almost completely fixed the surge, but I lost the map recently and had to go back to an older revision.

 

[bobjob]

Not entirely horrible, minus the OEM CAT increase and huge throttle closures. It's crazy seeing so many people logging both ignition corrections and knock counts. It's nice seeing a tune that isn't shooting into the overspeed territory though.

I think they log both because thats what some etuners ask for. I know stratafied does

 

[Ryephile]

Very good information. So basically these few knock occurrences are not necessarily of major concern. However, saying as I can re-create the circumstances in which they occur reliably and often (Passing on freeway) I could stand to take measures to reduce or eliminate those consistent events.

For reference I have just taken a log on a similar E30 blend tune (that I just tested and love and always want to run). It is much more Tidy. [MENTION=4567]Ryephile[/MENTION] You may want to see this one:

E30 5th gear WOT:
http://datazap.me/u/lizzardmax/fiestaststage2rev0?log=1&data=7-10-11-12-15

93 5th gear WOT:
http://datazap.me/u/lizzardmax/rev1slot393oct24psi-target?log=0&data=7-10-11-12-13
http://datazap.me/u/lizzardmax/rev1slot393oct24psi-target?log=1&data=7-10-11-12-13

The E30 unsurprisingly doesn't have any knock. The two 93 pulls there show two different situations, one being basically fine and the other showing some notable knock-induced ignition correction. In all cases your ETC is closing, implying your tunes' load limits aren't optimally set. For sure save these to send to your tuner if you decide to have him take another look at it.

 

[Ryephile]

[MENTION=4567]Ryephile[/MENTION] [MENTION=2537]Lizzardmax[/MENTION]

http://datazap.me/u/timwolf1gmailcom/3rd-gear-march-29-1?log=0&data=0-2-5-8-11-12-13-14-20-21-22-23

I'll echo everything [MENTION=930]dyn085[/MENTION] said. The load or plausibility limits aren't set high enough and it's closing the throttle body to reduce boost and thus torque to be within the programmed limits. Zero knock is great. Your tune has more to give, doubly so when you install a better intercooler.

 

[twolf]

I'll echo everything [MENTION=930]dyn085[/MENTION] said. The load or plausibility limits aren't set high enough and it's closing the throttle body to reduce boost and thus torque to be within the programmed limits. Zero knock is great. Your tune has more to give, doubly so when you install a better intercooler.

Thanks for the insight. Like I said he should be dyno tuning me on both 93 and e30 or 40 in just a few days so I'll bring up the throttle closures to him. Are you on Miataturbo?

 

[twolf]

I'll echo everything [MENTION=930]dyn085[/MENTION] said. The load or plausibility limits aren't set high enough and it's closing the throttle body to reduce boost and thus torque to be within the programmed limits. Zero knock is great. Your tune has more to give, doubly so when you install a better intercooler.

I like to think he knows what he's doing. He's tuned a ton of FoSTs and his personal car was the fastest stock turbo FoST. I was the first Fiesta he tuned though. I dunno if there's a big difference between the two platforms.

 

[Ryephile]

I am, but don't post very much. Are you on there? I have my build thread over there but honestly don't update it too much. I've been really working hard on dialing in both an EAE and X-Tau strategy to do a comprehensive compare & contrast in how they work in the MS3. They're both have their set of compromises, unsurprisingly for code that's haphazardly written.

Let us know how the next round of dyno tuning turns out for your FiST. It should turn out excellent.

 

[twolf]

I am, but don't post very much. Are you on there? I have my build thread over there but honestly don't update it too much. I've been really working hard on dialing in both an EAE and X-Tau strategy to do a comprehensive compare & contrast in how they work in the MS3. They're both have their set of compromises, unsurprisingly for code that's haphazardly written.

Let us know how the next round of dyno tuning turns out for your FiST. It should turn out excellent.

lol, I'd get eaten alive by Braineack and Co. I ask too many dumb questions.

I am looking to buy another Miata, though, and boost it. Is yours a 1.6 still?

Will do re: dyno.

 

[Ryephile]

lol, I'd get eaten alive by Braineack and Co. I ask too many dumb questions.

I am looking to buy another Miata, though, and boost it. Is yours a 1.6 still?

Will do re: dyno.

IMO it's better to lurk there than to post, as you noted they're not the friendliest to people outside their clique. The only defense for them is chances are 99/100 whatever question you have has already been answered. It's just too bad most of the good data is buried under a thick veneer of bitter snarky B.S..

Yes, mine's a 1.6, which I'm perfectly fine with. None of the stock Miata engines make great power without changing the con-rods at a minimum, so in that regard choosing 1.6 or 1.8, NA or NB comes down to which body or interior you prefer. The best solution is of course buying a fast car to begin with! The Miata does not do well with big power, the chassis just doesn't handle it. The FiST puts down power better, seriously.

If you really want a Miata, and trust me I understand the addiction, pick the model you like the best, and make sure you can get a FM2 no-elec kit and an MS3 plug-n-play from DIYautotune, and enjoy the good power balance.