The merits of stopping at a stage 2+ setup

[jeff]

Wow, my rep points are adding up quickly because of this thread...7 in one day...I'm 217 posts to 79 rep right now, or 36% rep to post count ratio...that might be a record to beat....thanks to you guys for that and for some very kind PMs from a few mature and friendly people.

okay but the thing is the OP did what he wanted............. and then turned around and made claims that HIS WAY is the BEST WAY.

That is the difference between "doing WTF you want because you want it and like it" and what OP has done here: falling for marketing BS and then defending it to the death.

Uh......I'm pretty sure that I never said my way was the best way. Again I'm being misrepresented here.

What I said was that this is "the first and best price point". I also said I was inexperienced with the FiST with big turbo setup and couldn't comment much on that except to say I've owned a big turbo car and was enjoying quick spool with littler turbo. I also praised the gains to be had with big turbo. And I also said that "stage 2+" is best for me, but understood that everyone would not agree. Never said my way was best, just best for me.

As I keep saying, I'll defend the CP-E dynos until they are disproven. A V-dyno and childish banter by Boss Hogg and his gang of lackeys is not enough to convince me otherwise.

 

[twolf]

That's only because people can't give you negative rep,

 

[jeff]

That's only because people can't give you negative rep,

Oh I am getting plenty...but to your point it would go both ways, none of us would have any rep then. Apples to apples.

 

[dyn085]

Wow, my rep points are adding up quickly because of this thread...7 in one day...I'm 217 posts to 79 rep right now, or 36% rep to post count ratio...that might be a record to beat....thanks to you guys for that and for some very kind PMs from a few mature and friendly people.

For someone who keeps trying to discount post count and rep, I'm surprised that you've made the quick leap to an Oscar acceptance speech. Anyone with a computer can see that multiple people in this thread have received the same rep or more in only three posts as you have in this whole thread, but congratulations nonetheless. Just because you can get rep points doesn't mean that you've actually provided the community any data to move forward with.

Edit: Now that I'm on the computer I see that twolf just matched the rep you've accrued over the entire thread in just one post, and it didn't even have ten words...

 

[JasonHaven]

It's unfortunate when ego gets in the way of a productive conversation.

 

[dyn085]

At least we know who's posting for rep now.

 

[DaveG99]

You do understand that even a v dyno works just as well as a real dyno when it's used to measure a difference in a part on the same car under the same conditions right? The max hp number isn't important. It's the difference in the number that matters

 

[dyn085]

You do understand that even a v dyno works just as well as a real dyno when it's used to measure a difference in a part on the same car under the same conditions right? The max hp number isn't important. It's the difference in the number that matters

Unfortunately, no-he doesn't.

 

[AzNightmare]

While the gains in the v dyno is almost negligible, we can see there is some white space between the 2 lines in some areas.
Does that somewhat merit the intake did do something??

 

[Hijinx]

While the gains in the v dyno is almost negligible, we can see there is some white space between the 2 lines in some areas.
Does that somewhat merit the intake did do something??

Go back and read what I said. I laid out the conditions under which the datalogs were done. In short, the cp-e log had no choice but to look like something happened. If I could have swapped them out and did logs within 5 minutes, it would've looked the same, maybe worse.

 

[WeTheNorth]

Haha all this over a 2hp gain? If you like the way the car drives after a useful/useless upgrade then good for you! Like many have said, do as you please it's your car but don't put out bs info

 

[jeff]

You do understand that even a v dyno works just as well as a real dyno when it's used to measure a difference in a part on the same car under the same conditions right? The max hp number isn't important. It's the difference in the number that matters

Yes sir, I know that. I also know that there are plenty of other variables that can affect a real or virtual dyno. It is possible that in either the real dyno proof I am referencing, or in the virtual dyno proof that is being shared, a number of variations occurred that caused numbers to change. Dyno done days apart or hours apart, there are variables that can make significant aberrations in the numbers.

Example - I went big turbo with my Subaru Forester XT, plus intake, exhaust, TMIC, ran Cobb's stage 3 OTS for a few months. Then I went to THE #1 Subaru guy, Doug at TopSpeed in Atlanta, for a custom tune. This guy has won awards everywhere and is pretty famous in the Porsche and Subaru world. He spend a few hours with my car, and after building a very nice tune he flashed back the OTS tune and dyno'd it just to see what numbers it gave now that the car had been warmed up for a few hours and done a number of pulls. The "hours later" dyno was a decent amount stronger than the "first pull" one (car was warm though, 3 hour drive to Atlanta before tune) on the OTS map - 6 HP to be exact. Of course, his custom map was way better, but this goes to show that dyno numbers are affected by all sorts of things. V dynos too. So whether it's Mitch's real dyno or Hijinx's virtual dyno, there are a number of variables that could mud the numbers. In my case, I just choose rather to believe in Mitch's numbers.

 

[jeff]

So this morning I flashed the Stratified stage 2 tune in place of the Cobb OTS.

Comparing both stage 1 tunes, the Cobb had way more power down low but puttered out quicker after 4,000 rpm or so. The Stratified tune limited power/torque at first but brought a nice improvement over the Cobb later in the rev band. And it was smoother.

The stage 2 tunes are also different. The Cobb tune, like the stage 1 tune, has lots of power early on. Now that I have some bracing the car can mostly handle it. It feels gutsy. I was a bit disappointed with the Strat stage 2 tune. Once again power down low is limited...tires barely broke at all. But it is smoother. Doesn't feel as fierce though.

Cobb hit 23.1 peak psi, Strat hit 24.5 psi. But that was a few weeks apart. I'm going to drive with both over the next month and even within the same hour and take some more measurements, then figure out which one I prefer.

Or get that custom tune I've been eyeing.....

 

[2Cool]

So this morning I flashed the Stratified stage 2 tune in place of the Cobb OTS.

Comparing both stage 1 tunes, the Cobb had way more power down low but puttered out quicker after 4,000 rpm or so. The Stratified tune limited power/torque at first but brought a nice improvement over the Cobb later in the rev band. And it was smoother.

The stage 2 tunes are also different. The Cobb tune, like the stage 1 tune, has lots of power early on. Now that I have some bracing the car can mostly handle it. It feels gutsy. I was a bit disappointed with the Strat stage 2 tune. Once again power down low is limited...tires barely broke at all. But it is smoother. Doesn't feel as fierce though.

Cobb hit 23.1 peak psi, Strat hit 24.5 psi. But that was a few weeks apart. I'm going to drive with both over the next month and even within the same hour and take some more measurements, then figure out which one I prefer.

Or get that custom tune I've been eyeing.....

Just did the same thing, going from Cobb stg2 to Stratified. On mine the Cobb tune never hit anything over 20.8psi, no matter the conditions. The Stratified one easily tops 23, and has hit a peak of 24.4 so far. So actual feel is just slightly less at low RPM, and much nicer pull to redline. Both 93 octane versions, Cobb boost levels measured from 12 feet above sea level at 60 degrees all the way to just at 1k feet in WV at 30 degrees, no difference in peak numbers. Weird how their OTS tune makes such a range over different cars.

 

[2006ser]

So is the stratified tune worth it

 

[MPA]

Uh......I'm pretty sure that I never said my way was the best way. Again I'm being misrepresented here.

What I said was that this is "the first and best price point"

This reminds me of Rick James on Chappelle's Show

"See I never just did things just to do them. C'mon. What am I gunna do, just all of a sudden just jump up and grind my feet in somebody's couch like it's something to do. C'mon, I got a little more sense than that!

Yeah, I remember grinding my feet in Eddie's couch"

 

[frankiefiesta]

So this morning I flashed the Stratified stage 2 tune in place of the Cobb OTS.

Comparing both stage 1 tunes, the Cobb had way more power down low but puttered out quicker after 4,000 rpm or so. The Stratified tune limited power/torque at first but brought a nice improvement over the Cobb later in the rev band. And it was smoother.

The stage 2 tunes are also different. The Cobb tune, like the stage 1 tune, has lots of power early on. Now that I have some bracing the car can mostly handle it. It feels gutsy. I was a bit disappointed with the Strat stage 2 tune. Once again power down low is limited...tires barely broke at all. But it is smoother. Doesn't feel as fierce though.

Cobb hit 23.1 peak psi, Strat hit 24.5 psi. But that was a few weeks apart. I'm going to drive with both over the next month and even within the same hour and take some more measurements, then figure out which one I prefer.

Or get that custom tune I've been eyeing.....

go for it! I just paid [MENTION=1098]DHM[/MENTION] for e-tuning. Will do a review once the tune is done. Still waiting on a basemap though to start the process.

 

[jeff]

This reminds me of Rick James on Chappelle's Show

"See I never just did things just to do them. C'mon. What am I gunna do, just all of a sudden just jump up and grind my feet in somebody's couch like it's something to do. C'mon, I got a little more sense than that!

Yeah, I remember grinding my feet in Eddie's couch"

I said that my setup was IMHO the best first collection of mods, not the end-all-be-all final ultimate setup for everyone.

Just did the same thing, going from Cobb stg2 to Stratified. On mine the Cobb tune never hit anything over 20.8psi, no matter the conditions. The Stratified one easily tops 23, and has hit a peak of 24.4 so far. So actual feel is just slightly less at low RPM, and much nicer pull to redline. Both 93 octane versions, Cobb boost levels measured from 12 feet above sea level at 60 degrees all the way to just at 1k feet in WV at 30 degrees, no difference in peak numbers. Weird how their OTS tune makes such a range over different cars.

Glad someone else is in the same place.

I love the Cobb's early pull, the Strat tune just feels weaker. Yes it's better pulling to redline but I don't know if it's worth it to me.

Which do you prefer?

So is the stratified tune worth it

The stage 1 tune definitely is for $50. I only paid an additional $25 for the stage 2 tune, that's cheap for an extra tune so I'd say yes. But I'm not sure which I'll end up using, need to drive more.

go for it! I just paid [MENTION=1098]DHM[/MENTION] for e-tuning. Will do a review once the tune is done. Still waiting on a basemap though to start the process.

Yes, considering the above I'll probably get a custom tune eventually. I'd love the early grunt of the Cobb tune mixed with the smoothness and higher rpm pull of the Strat tune.

 

[dyn085]

I said that my setup was IMHO the best first collection of mods, not the end-all-be-all final ultimate setup for everyone.

I would be willing to bet that people would have agreed with you if you hadn't listed the $500 worth of intake mods, the worst overall 'cost-effective' power-adder, in your list of most 'cost-effective' power-adders.

 

[jeff]

I would be willing to bet that people would have agreed with you if you hadn't listed the $500 worth of intake mods, the worst overall 'cost-effective' power-adder, in your list of most 'cost-effective' power-adders.

Definitely and I appreciate that. You're right. But recall that in my very first post I did list only the tune and intercooler as the necessary things at right around $1000. So I certainly did not say that my intake mods were necessary, rather only what I chose to do. I gave a range between $1000 and $2000 depending on what a person might want to spend. I spent the high-end of that but about the same can be achieved for the low-end.