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Regarding fitment and rubbing for 205/45/17 tires
- Thread starter commonplatypus
- Start date
OP
Thread Starter
#23
Thread Starter
#23
So, I ended up pulling the trigger on a set of Pilot Super Sports in 205/45/17 fitment at a price I simply could not afford to pass up. After a $100 rebate through discount tire I got them for $580 installed out the door and had them wrapped on my OEM wheels.
They don't rub at all, nor could I get them to rub and I was trying my damndest to get them to. Sharp turns, bumps, in and out of driveways and parking lots; nothing. They fit very well without issue and look great doing so. I am at stock ride height for the car. I don't think it can drop much from here without causing rub. I do have a friend on the same tires who is dropped on H&R springs and he is reporting minimal rubbing except when at full lock and I believe over some speed bumps. Tacking the liner back may result in solving the issue.
As for the ride quality; it's incredible. Such a night and day difference from the re050a tires that I drove to the shop on (Which had 9/32 and 7/32 tread left on them after rotation respectively). They are incredibly quiet and stable, very comfortable, turn in is better than the re050a tire, ultimate grip is way up, and off the line traction is also a huge step in the right direction. I can't get over how much I love these tires.
What about cons? Well, because the tire is 0.9" larger in diameter, the speedometer is offset by -3.33% when calculated. It has also had an impact on how much power I get to the ground. The power loss is about 3 - 5 WHP and around 3 ft/lbs of TQ. This is minor enough that I would consider it to be margin of error territory, though the fact stands that I've increased the diameter and the tire weight by a pound. Lower wheel weight may contribute to regaining this lost power in the future. Right now I can live with it given all of the other benefits, especially since I wasn't able to really put my power on the ground effectively before.
Very happy with these tires.
I've attached some pics of how they look on the car.
They don't rub at all, nor could I get them to rub and I was trying my damndest to get them to. Sharp turns, bumps, in and out of driveways and parking lots; nothing. They fit very well without issue and look great doing so. I am at stock ride height for the car. I don't think it can drop much from here without causing rub. I do have a friend on the same tires who is dropped on H&R springs and he is reporting minimal rubbing except when at full lock and I believe over some speed bumps. Tacking the liner back may result in solving the issue.
As for the ride quality; it's incredible. Such a night and day difference from the re050a tires that I drove to the shop on (Which had 9/32 and 7/32 tread left on them after rotation respectively). They are incredibly quiet and stable, very comfortable, turn in is better than the re050a tire, ultimate grip is way up, and off the line traction is also a huge step in the right direction. I can't get over how much I love these tires.
What about cons? Well, because the tire is 0.9" larger in diameter, the speedometer is offset by -3.33% when calculated. It has also had an impact on how much power I get to the ground. The power loss is about 3 - 5 WHP and around 3 ft/lbs of TQ. This is minor enough that I would consider it to be margin of error territory, though the fact stands that I've increased the diameter and the tire weight by a pound. Lower wheel weight may contribute to regaining this lost power in the future. Right now I can live with it given all of the other benefits, especially since I wasn't able to really put my power on the ground effectively before.
Very happy with these tires.
I've attached some pics of how they look on the car.
These are some great posts. Thanks for sharing! I m looking to get a new set of tires as well. With the recent increase in my daily commute(~50 miles one way), I am looking for a way to make my FiST have a more comfortable ride. After reading this thread, I am considering getting either the ExtremeContact DWS 06 or Pilot Super Sports. But I am completely open to any suggestion for a different brand if it offers a bit more comfort than the two I mentioned above. Again, this is a a really informative thread and I appreciate everyone for sharing their experience.
OP
Thread Starter
#25
Thread Starter
#25
I've spent a few weeks now with the PSS (Had to take them off briefly for winter tires because of the cold and snow that ruined my flirtation with spring weather, but they are back on now) and I honestly love them. They are comfortable, quiet, very grippy in the dry, have an incredibly warranty and tread wear rating, they're great in the wet and handle with amazing confidence, they don't seem terribly bothered by the low 40s we've had here in Chicagoland recently either, and they look great, too. I love these tires.
They do not rub. I cannot stress this enough because this fear has to go away. If you are on stock suspension; they will not rub. Period.
A few cons I've noticed is reduced power ouput. The larger diameter (Gained 0.6" over the winter tires I was tuning on) has taken me down from around 300 tq to about 260-ish on average. HP is down from 216 to 198. This is greater than I thought it was previous after some intense measurements taking. The performance hit is real. That said, a lot of that power I had before wasn't usable at all. All of my power is usable now and I don't break the tires loose in 1st and 2nd nearly as much or as badly as I did on either the winter tires or the stock re050a tires; it's just hook and go with some torque steer. That's actually a new thing that came with these tires for me. The car never used to torque steer very noticeably because it would just blow the tires off. It's not able to easily do that anymore and it translates directly into torque steer where it can. The tires were also very expensive. I paid $580 after a rebate through Discount Tire for $100; which means I actually paid $680 installed up front and out the door. For some people that might be hard to swallow; but I went in knowing this and knowing what and why I wanted to buy these.
There is a reason they put Michaelin Pilot Super Sports on Ferraris, Porsche's, and BMW M cars and it isn't superficial.
Will they dominate autocross and beat a dedicated tire such as the RE-71R or Rival S? No. Absolutely not. Will you be competitive? Probably. The extra sidewall hurts turn-in a bit, but they seriously hold traction well and I can feel the G force piling on when I whip it around an empty parking lot.
I don't have any experience with the DWS 06, but I'd buy another pair of super sports in a heartbeat.
They do not rub. I cannot stress this enough because this fear has to go away. If you are on stock suspension; they will not rub. Period.
A few cons I've noticed is reduced power ouput. The larger diameter (Gained 0.6" over the winter tires I was tuning on) has taken me down from around 300 tq to about 260-ish on average. HP is down from 216 to 198. This is greater than I thought it was previous after some intense measurements taking. The performance hit is real. That said, a lot of that power I had before wasn't usable at all. All of my power is usable now and I don't break the tires loose in 1st and 2nd nearly as much or as badly as I did on either the winter tires or the stock re050a tires; it's just hook and go with some torque steer. That's actually a new thing that came with these tires for me. The car never used to torque steer very noticeably because it would just blow the tires off. It's not able to easily do that anymore and it translates directly into torque steer where it can. The tires were also very expensive. I paid $580 after a rebate through Discount Tire for $100; which means I actually paid $680 installed up front and out the door. For some people that might be hard to swallow; but I went in knowing this and knowing what and why I wanted to buy these.
There is a reason they put Michaelin Pilot Super Sports on Ferraris, Porsche's, and BMW M cars and it isn't superficial.
Will they dominate autocross and beat a dedicated tire such as the RE-71R or Rival S? No. Absolutely not. Will you be competitive? Probably. The extra sidewall hurts turn-in a bit, but they seriously hold traction well and I can feel the G force piling on when I whip it around an empty parking lot.
I don't have any experience with the DWS 06, but I'd buy another pair of super sports in a heartbeat.
OP
Thread Starter
#29
Thread Starter
#29
Hey all! So the power loss was from the extra weight and increased diameter the larger tires created. They offset the gearing by essentially making it taller and thus, that is where the power "loss" seemed to come from. Power wasn't loss, it was just that the gearing was made less efficient by runnign the larger tires.
I ran them through something like 7 or 8 autocross events since and put about 5000 miles on them and they've held up incredibly well, though they have begun to chunk a bit at the shoulders from heat and harsh pavement a few of the events were held on. Tread is in very good condition, however! Wouldn't recommend if you do a lot of autocross, but they should survive awhile.
I've since swapped to RE71 on 16" wheels in 205/45/16 and the difference from lowering the unsprung weight and diameter is incredibly noticeable. Car accelerates noticeably faster on RE71 than it did on PSS with the lighter setup and stickier tires, though the PSS was definitely quieter, more comfortable, and smoother to ride on.
I still never ended up rubbing or scraping on PSS at any point, though I was on stock suspension. These tires will absolutely not work on anything but stock ride height. Anything even slightly lower will rub for sure.
I ran them through something like 7 or 8 autocross events since and put about 5000 miles on them and they've held up incredibly well, though they have begun to chunk a bit at the shoulders from heat and harsh pavement a few of the events were held on. Tread is in very good condition, however! Wouldn't recommend if you do a lot of autocross, but they should survive awhile.
I've since swapped to RE71 on 16" wheels in 205/45/16 and the difference from lowering the unsprung weight and diameter is incredibly noticeable. Car accelerates noticeably faster on RE71 than it did on PSS with the lighter setup and stickier tires, though the PSS was definitely quieter, more comfortable, and smoother to ride on.
I still never ended up rubbing or scraping on PSS at any point, though I was on stock suspension. These tires will absolutely not work on anything but stock ride height. Anything even slightly lower will rub for sure.
I wanted to add to this thread since it was so helpful to me. Also, props to [MENTION=2740]commonplatypus[/MENTION] for being such an awesome forum member!
I previously had BFGoodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2, 205/45/17 on stock wheels. I just put on Michelin Pilot Super Sport 205/45/17, still using stock wheels. For both wheels, I am getting a tiny bit of rub during low speed lock-to-lock turns (where the steering wheel is turned all the way). Otherwise, I have no rub at all, even when going over bumps, etc. I am very happy with the Michelin PSS... they are comfortable and quiet. I really wanted to use 45s for comfort, and these wheels really do fit the bill. For me, they are absolutely worth the premium, as my day-to-day driving is much more enjoyable even with such a subtle comfort change.
When these wear out, I will likely get TD 16x7 and put 205/45/16 or 205/50/16 on them (more likely the former). I will stay with Michelin PSS tires. But for now, it's a bit to expensive and I'm happy with what I've got.
I previously had BFGoodrich g-Force Sport COMP-2, 205/45/17 on stock wheels. I just put on Michelin Pilot Super Sport 205/45/17, still using stock wheels. For both wheels, I am getting a tiny bit of rub during low speed lock-to-lock turns (where the steering wheel is turned all the way). Otherwise, I have no rub at all, even when going over bumps, etc. I am very happy with the Michelin PSS... they are comfortable and quiet. I really wanted to use 45s for comfort, and these wheels really do fit the bill. For me, they are absolutely worth the premium, as my day-to-day driving is much more enjoyable even with such a subtle comfort change.
When these wear out, I will likely get TD 16x7 and put 205/45/16 or 205/50/16 on them (more likely the former). I will stay with Michelin PSS tires. But for now, it's a bit to expensive and I'm happy with what I've got.
Thanks for the response. I was just confused since you quoted specific torque/HP figures, but appreciate the clarification. I've been reading up on it a bit since I'm considering your exact tires and was worried less about rubbing and more about how the increased diameter would impact performance. As best as I can understand now, it is just as you stated above, that you aren't losing power, but are just making the gearing effectively taller and increasing the weight. If you calibrate a dyno accordingly, it will show roughly the same amount of power output, but you may have slightly slower acceleration from a stop because a) more unsprung weight and b) taller gearing. At the same time, traction matters and the stock tires are wasting a lot of power in the 1st and 2nd, so the added traction of the PSS's should make up for any loss in mechanical advantage. Once you are at speed and in the power band, I doubt you'd notice the gearing impact and the added traction in the corners should more than make up for it. I really wish there was a better selection of good tires in our stock size, but I think I'll be going up to 45's for now.
Not sure if I have posted on this thread but I have on dozens, this car really needs 16 or 15" wheels and should of come with 16's instead of the overly tall and heavy stock wheels. Some understand the significant improvements lower weight and a bit more sidewall tire and wheel setups will do for the car, better in every single way for performance, ride, noise, wear on the chassis, cheaper tires. Some setups might give up a bit of the instant response but that is not a bad thing in some cases as it can make the car safer under duress.
AND, look at the real specs before picking tires, the sidewall specs are hugely different than the real specs on most tires, the 195 BFG Sport Comp 2 is super wide for that size and great on a 7" wheel but could be run on a bit wider as well. Look at diameter, tread and overall width when picking tires, always
AND, look at the real specs before picking tires, the sidewall specs are hugely different than the real specs on most tires, the 195 BFG Sport Comp 2 is super wide for that size and great on a 7" wheel but could be run on a bit wider as well. Look at diameter, tread and overall width when picking tires, always
I have 215/45/17 PSS and have for almost a year now. At first I had some rubbing but found that if I got the tires over 40 psi (which reduced sidewall give and improved many things) along with pushing the carpet up and clamping the holders to keep it out of the way; now I only get rubbing from really bad bumps and such that really should not be hit at high speeds anyway. (railroad crossings and bad pot holes that would pop most tires) Because of the gearing increase I wish I had smaller tires but am still finding it easy to loose traction in the lower gears if on the right road surface.
As for the quality of the tires? In the rain these things are amazing. Cornering grip in the wet is about the same as the stock tires dry. Hydroplaning? Not happening. I have driven at 80-100 in the rain in confidence. Ultimate grip is insane, I get scared before the tires are close to letting go and when they are pushed too far they squeal but keep going where your wheels are pointed with a controlled sliding.
I experienced the squeal this last week in a hard turn around 50mph (all my driving is street driving) where they actually tried to go over the inside line in a left hand turn. I let off the gas and turned more towards the right and only crossed one of the double yellow lines. (Driver error but they are forgiving tires with unbelievable ultimate grip) As everyone else says they are quieter than stock by a lot and ride better also.
I got 215/45 because they were $50 cheaper a tire... I really have a hard time justifying it now and really wish I had 16's to put on my car instead of the tire rack 14 lbs. 17's the top end is noticeably hurt with these although with the lighter wheels I saw an acceleration bump in 3rd if you do the math on actual mph.
As for the quality of the tires? In the rain these things are amazing. Cornering grip in the wet is about the same as the stock tires dry. Hydroplaning? Not happening. I have driven at 80-100 in the rain in confidence. Ultimate grip is insane, I get scared before the tires are close to letting go and when they are pushed too far they squeal but keep going where your wheels are pointed with a controlled sliding.
I experienced the squeal this last week in a hard turn around 50mph (all my driving is street driving) where they actually tried to go over the inside line in a left hand turn. I let off the gas and turned more towards the right and only crossed one of the double yellow lines. (Driver error but they are forgiving tires with unbelievable ultimate grip) As everyone else says they are quieter than stock by a lot and ride better also.
I got 215/45 because they were $50 cheaper a tire... I really have a hard time justifying it now and really wish I had 16's to put on my car instead of the tire rack 14 lbs. 17's the top end is noticeably hurt with these although with the lighter wheels I saw an acceleration bump in 3rd if you do the math on actual mph.
I just got 205/45/17 PSS installed today to replace my OEM ones after 25k miles. They set the PSI at 33 all around. Does that sound right? the OEM PSI are different for front and rear. I have stock wheels and suspension, so I know I sacrifice a little performance with the increased diameter and weight, but new wheels would mean I would have to store more crap in my garage and good tires in stock sizes are hard to come by.
![[cool]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_cool.gif "Cool [cool]"){kind=icon}
Like other members have stated, (I'm not the first to run these on stock setup) they work fine. I get no rubbing so far (drove 35 miles to work on some bad westside LA roads). I dont notice any performance hit on my commute so thats good. Im sure if i tracked it i would care. The thing with tires is by the time you get new ones you are used to the gradually changing old ones. So unless you do something like track your car, the changes are slow and steady. Swapping to new ones will (or should) be noticable. Ride seems a bit less harsh on bumps. I'll wait and see when my gf rides since she says the car is bumpy. I'll grab some pic later, I need to dress the tires since the tire place didnt do it and they look a bit dull. I will say the bigger size filles out the wheel well gaps nicely without the drop.
Pics http://imgur.com/a/dxuzK
Last pic is with tires dressed. I took some with wheels at full lock plenty of clearance
Last pic is with tires dressed. I took some with wheels at full lock plenty of clearance
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