Which Intercooler is the right one?

[yackyz]

I only want to buy one for the life of this car, so big turbo is in consideration. But as of now this is just a regular ol' daily. I really like the DHM FMIC the crash bar setup dropping 13lbs on their site, but I can't seem to find reviews on the product or any data on it. 900$ is alot on a product with limited reviews. Is this setup even necessary for a potentially 300-375whp car? I know DHM has done some impressive things to the fiesta aftermarket but I'm all about mods that are bang for your buck. I've also looked at ATP, Mountune, and cobb. After the RMM this is my next mod so I want to know if anybody has good/bad things to say about em. Thank you Happy New Year.

 

[frankiefiesta]

If you have the $900 and May possibly go big turbo in the future then get the DHM big intercooler. The only one you should need

 

[me32]

I can only comment on the ATP intercooler. Its good with no issues. Ive run on the stock tune and a cobb ap stage 2 tune. The intcooler fits well an fills the whole front opening.

 

[Sourskittle]

Because of the lack of other venders willing to invest time and resources into correctly sized intercoolers, DHM is the only choice. That's not DHM fault. Is it easier to build a bolt-on small cooler and sell it for $700? Instead of redesigning a ton of misc brackets and a support and of course the issues with painting it and sourcing correct tubes to keep weight down. The DHM, in my opinion, is the only option. And while I do agree, it is an investment, if your going to spend more than $450, and can afford the DHM, I recommend it. To me... Its not really a GIANT intercooler; its just only correctly sized option we have because no one else will take on the project.

People will point to "xxx core will support xxx hp", but if you want to make 300whp, you prob shouldn't pick a 300whp intercooler.

In florida, its a big deal. Maybe if you live in Canada or the UK, the intercooler could be a little smaller, but if you want 350-375whp, and you don't buy a dhm intercooler now, you'll either buy one later, or at least wish you had.

 

[SuperchargedTundra]

I have the DHM Race intercooler...I'm very happy with the install/figment/support from DHM/results.

 

[sybex]

The DHM intercooler probably doesn't fit the 2doors..

 

[Siestarider]

There is a lack of hard data comparing hot side temp and flow to cool side temp and flow. I have MM J line and Cobb, currently use the Cobb because its quite a bit lighter and is one of the largest stock fit units.

If I recall correctly stock ECU will start pulling full throttle timing when intake temps exceed 105 F. Here in Fla, intake temps easily exceed 105 F in heavy stop and go traffic, but there is no opportunity to reach either higher speeds or to use full throttle higher lbs/min air flow.

On track, I seldom see over 105 F with Cobb running their S3 tune. Speeds up to 120 mph and intake flows up to 24+ lbs/min.

Maybe someone with Cyborg or bigger turbo can report their data log experience with different IC's under tracking. You are more likely to get data from Track section of Forum.

 

[yackyz]

Thanks for all the great responses guys. My impression was that the DHM intercooler is the way to go as far as being the "only one you'll ever need" The price is high, but as [MENTION=3628]SuperchargedTundra[/MENTION] implied, you get what you pay for as far as quality.

 

[Xaendeau]

What about something like this? http://www.airtec-cooling.co.uk/product/airtec-stage-3-fiesta-st180-eco-boost-front-mount-intercooler-upgrade/ It retains the factory crash bar. They are UK, and I've heard good things about them. Price seems pretty good even after shipping and currency (USD->Pound). I don't personally own one but it was what I was looking at to retain the factory crash bar. If you hit something hard though, you will need to replace the intercooler.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but I'm looking to build towards the same power as you and this is the one I think I'm going to get. Can anyone chime in and tell the downsides of removing the crash bar for an aftermarket one? I'd imagine with the shape, it would hold up well, but make fender-benders a bit more jarring. I'm probably just paranoid but anything that messes with safety on a street car makes me a little uneasy. If it was an older vehicle I probably wouldn't care, but in the last 5 or so years they have been making vehicles extremely safe and well tested.

 

[commonplatypus]

I've heard great things about a lot of the intercoolers currently available. If you intend to stay stock turbo, it's hard to go wrong and you have a few options. For the highest of quality I've heard amazing things about the CP-e Delta core; which is what I will likely be going for. The construction on that thing is top notch and from what I can find in data, it doesn't disappoint in perform either. It is the only factory fitting intercooler I have seen data for that actually DROPS charge temps during a pull with minimal loss in pressure. It is built extremely well. CP-e has a huge reputation for quality. The downside? It cost $700 and is very heavy.

Alternative to that is Deadhook Motorsports. They have no shortage of fans and their products speak for themselves. They work well and Russ has a lot of testimonials behind him to back his product up. I had originally thought I had some data that suggest his factory fit intercooler did not flow very much better than stock, but it turned out to be erroneous. The price is right for his factory fit and it performs well.

MAPerformance recently came out with an intercooler as well. I haven't seen any performance numbers but it looks to be built well and is competitively priced. I'm very eager to see how this one performs and it has my attention as one to watch.

I also hear great things about the AirTec intercooler. If you look around on Google, there was a guy named Razorlab who did a LOT of extensive testing for it on and off the track. Of all of the available intercoolers out there, i think this one probably has THE most data collected and compiled by a user in the community. It performs very well, is constructed well, and has a reasonable price.

A lot of people run the Mishimoto j-line too. It's very good at cooling and is huge with some modification of the front assembly needed I believe in some cases. From what I have seen this one does not flow as well as other intercoolers. That's to be expected however as it is not an intercooler designed for our car directly. It's inexpensive and cools well, though. I believe Mishimoto is designing an intercooler that is for our car, but I haven't heard much about it lately.

Cobb is... well, it's Cobb. People don't seem to have much opinion on it. Best I can gather is that it works adequately and is built well. For the price you can probably do better, though. Of all of the intercoolers I've seen data for this one has eluded me.

I've heard that of all of the available intercoolers out there the mountune probably performs the worst by virtue of being tube and fin in design. Everything else is bar and plate. I've seen SOME data that backs this up, but not enough to make a definitive call on it.

I only really know about factory fit intercoolers though. People rave about the DHM Race Intercooler and rightly so. If you're willing to replace the crash bar and have big turbo dreams, it's probably the way to go.

Here is the data I managed to compile on intercoolers that I could find.

http://datazap.me/u/commonplatypus/stock-vs-dhm-vs-cpe-vs-airtec-vs-jline?log=0&data=

You can toggle the different plot lines for them, although I would take the CP-e with a grain of salt. It flows at about 22 lbs/min on mass airflow in other datalogs I have managed to see. A bit above these in this compilation, but not far outside of the range of error of margin for climate, air quality, barometric pressure, etc. As far as I know, these were all on the Cobb OTS Stage 1 tune with on charge pipe upgrades (which do not benefit us at stock turbo size anyways).

Hope this helps!

 

[yackyz]

What about something like this? http://www.airtec-cooling.co.uk/product/airtec-stage-3-fiesta-st180-eco-boost-front-mount-intercooler-upgrade/ It retains the factory crash bar. They are UK, and I've heard good things about them. Price seems pretty good even after shipping and currency (USD->Pound). I don't personally own one but it was what I was looking at to retain the factory crash bar. If you hit something hard though, you will need to replace the intercooler.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but I'm looking to build towards the same power as you and this is the one I think I'm going to get. Can anyone chime in and tell the downsides of removing the crash bar for an aftermarket one? I'd imagine with the shape, it would hold up well, but make fender-benders a bit more jarring. I'm probably just paranoid but anything that messes with safety on a street car makes me a little uneasy. If it was an older vehicle I probably wouldn't care, but in the last 5 or so years they have been making vehicles extremely safe and well tested.

I've heard great things about a lot of the intercoolers currently available. If you intend to stay stock turbo, it's hard to go wrong and you have a few options. For the highest of quality I've heard amazing things about the CP-e Delta core; which is what I will likely be going for. The construction on that thing is top notch and from what I can find in data, it doesn't disappoint in perform either. It is the only factory fitting intercooler I have seen data for that actually DROPS charge temps during a pull with minimal loss in pressure. It is built extremely well. CP-e has a huge reputation for quality. The downside? It cost $700 and is very heavy.

Alternative to that is Deadhook Motorsports. They have no shortage of fans and their products speak for themselves. They work well and Russ has a lot of testimonials behind him to back his product up. I had originally thought I had some data that suggest his factory fit intercooler did not flow very much better than stock, but it turned out to be erroneous. The price is right for his factory fit and it performs well.

MAPerformance recently came out with an intercooler as well. I haven't seen any performance numbers but it looks to be built well and is competitively priced. I'm very eager to see how this one performs and it has my attention as one to watch.

I also hear great things about the AirTec intercooler. If you look around on Google, there was a guy named Razorlab who did a LOT of extensive testing for it on and off the track. Of all of the available intercoolers out there, i think this one probably has THE most data collected and compiled by a user in the community. It performs very well, is constructed well, and has a reasonable price.

A lot of people run the Mishimoto j-line too. It's very good at cooling and is huge with some modification of the front assembly needed I believe in some cases. From what I have seen this one does not flow as well as other intercoolers. That's to be expected however as it is not an intercooler designed for our car directly. It's inexpensive and cools well, though. I believe Mishimoto is designing an intercooler that is for our car, but I haven't heard much about it lately.

Cobb is... well, it's Cobb. People don't seem to have much opinion on it. Best I can gather is that it works adequately and is built well. For the price you can probably do better, though. Of all of the intercoolers I've seen data for this one has eluded me.

I've heard that of all of the available intercoolers out there the mountune probably performs the worst by virtue of being tube and fin in design. Everything else is bar and plate. I've seen SOME data that backs this up, but not enough to make a definitive call on it.

I only really know about factory fit intercoolers though. People rave about the DHM Race Intercooler and rightly so. If you're willing to replace the crash bar and have big turbo dreams, it's probably the way to go.

Here is the data I managed to compile on intercoolers that I could find.

http://datazap.me/u/commonplatypus/stock-vs-dhm-vs-cpe-vs-airtec-vs-jline?log=0&data=

You can toggle the different plot lines for them, although I would take the CP-e with a grain of salt. It flows at about 22 lbs/min on mass airflow in other datalogs I have managed to see. A bit above these in this compilation, but not far outside of the range of error of margin for climate, air quality, barometric pressure, etc. As far as I know, these were all on the Cobb OTS Stage 1 tune with on charge pipe upgrades (which do not benefit us at stock turbo size anyways).

Hope this helps!

Good Data plot for the most part, I question how different the temps are for the DHM and CPE whilst the CPE was attaining more mass. Maybe difference in velocity? And if your talking big turbo like I was at the beginning of this thread, I think the general consensus is to get the DHM intercooler and the crash bar, which is beneficial for dropping 13lbs. But I'm sure the Intercooler makes up for the weight loss.

 

[commonplatypus]

Good Data plot for the most part, I question how different the temps are for the DHM and CPE whilst the CPE was attaining more mass. Maybe difference in velocity? And if your talking big turbo like I was at the beginning of this thread, I think the general consensus is to get the DHM intercooler and the crash bar, which is beneficial for dropping 13lbs. But I'm sure the Intercooler makes up for the weight loss.

The data I have should be taken with a grain of salt and used as a general idea of what to expect, as opposed to hard data and a definitive statement. I found another log from a user here at this forum by the name of [MENTION=1668]haste[/MENTION] who has the CP-e intercooler installed. It shows some temperature rising, but it is well within reason and the airflow is on par with everyone else as well.

http://datazap.me/u/haste/4th-gear-pulls?log=0&data=4-9

The problem with datalogs like I posted above is that they are taken in different climates, at different temperatures, at various times of year, etc. So many variables. I have other logs that show the DHM factory fit performs just as wellas everything else. The only way to get truly good data would of course be to have everyone meet on the same road at the same time of day all at once.

I would agree on the DHM intercooler and crash bar for big turbo. I'll probably run one of Russ's "Quick Spool" 290R kits at some point or an ATP 2560 with a custom tune with something like the CP-e or Deadhook factory fit intercooler. I'm not looking for on the edge performance and intend to keep things pretty mild myself; maybe finding satisfaction around 280HP.

 

[Schoolz]

The data I have should be taken with a grain of salt and used as a general idea of what to expect, as opposed to hard data and a definitive statement. I found another log from a user here at this forum by the name of [MENTION=1668]haste[/MENTION] who has the CP-e intercooler installed. It shows some temperature rising, but it is well within reason and the airflow is on par with everyone else as well.

http://datazap.me/u/haste/4th-gear-pulls?log=0&data=4-9

The problem with datalogs like I posted above is that they are taken in different climates, at different temperatures, at various times of year, etc. So many variables. I have other logs that show the DHM factory fit performs just as wellas everything else. The only way to get truly good data would of course be to have everyone meet on the same road at the same time of day all at once.

I would agree on the DHM intercooler and crash bar for big turbo. I'll probably run one of Russ's "Quick Spool" 290R kits at some point or an ATP 2560 with a custom tune with something like the CP-e or Deadhook factory fit intercooler. I'm not looking for on the edge performance and intend to keep things pretty mild myself; maybe finding satisfaction around 280HP.

I am in the same boat with my power goals. I spoke with Russ and he said the cobb or DHM factory fit would be just fine for the power and performance I want.

 

[yackyz]

280hp for this car would be sweet and relatively affordable, but 24x10.5x3.5 (DHM race intercooler) sounds so much better than 22 x 3.5 x 6 (DHM factory fit) but that is just me. Those numbers were from their website. But it's gonna be awhile to save up for that purchase haha

 

[Wimp Lo]

The core is nearly double but with the tubular crash bar it weighs less.

Don't worry about a crash, the intercooler core is a lot of deformable structure. I bet it would take a bigger hit to bend the frame with a DHM race intercooler and crash bar than a stock car.

It seems like a no-brainer to me. If you're going to go, go big.

 

[commonplatypus]

Out of morbid curiosity, what are the risks of an insurance claim denial if you get in a wreck on the street with an aftermarket crash bar? Like say you ended up needing medical coverage or any other occupants in other vehicles involved in the crash did? Could this be looked at as grounds to deny any of your claims and pin liability on you? You're modifying the safety specification that the vehicle was designed and tested under for street use at that point.

Just curious if it would cause issues and if anyone knew or not because it got me thinking...

 

[Wimp Lo]

Try not crashing.

 

[commonplatypus]

I could not have asked for a better response to that question lmao

 

[Sourskittle]

What intercooler and crash bar? That's how it came... What is an intercooler? What is a crash bar?

 

[Schoolz]

280hp for this car would be sweet and relatively affordable, but 24x10.5x3.5 (DHM race intercooler) sounds so much better than 22 x 3.5 x 6 (DHM factory fit) but that is just me. Those numbers were from their website. But it's gonna be awhile to save up for that purchase haha

Yeah it will take me a while to save up for everything as well. I may even want to go with the race intercooler when the time comes. I am really not sure right now haha it would be a good investment just in case I get bored with 280whp and want some more in my life. It will leave me more options in the long run.