Advice: GT2560R + N2O & Meth

[Xaendeau]

I'm new to the fourms! Couldn't find what I'm looking for with searching so I'd figure I'd post a new thread. I think I posted this in the right place

I'm looking to build myself a triple duty track/street/strip (in that order) FiST. I'm going to start off with a Garrett GT2560R with stock internals at first, then down the road rebuild and add the wet shot of nitrous and meth.

1st Question: I've also considered a GT2860RS or a GTX2860R, but I'm concerned that the extra power with stock internals would start to break things before I get a chance to rebuild the engine (think a year or two to save up cash). Anyone who knows about these two turbos could chime in?

2nd Question: A second concern of mine is after I rebuild the engine and add the wet shot, the N20+meth causes the turbo to pretty much spool to max psi instantly. The idea behind this is to have the happy juice fully engage in 3rd and 4th gear on the 1/4 mile (or maybe 2nd if I can get traction). The bad side of this that it will add a CRAZY amount of torque at the beginning of each gear after up-shifting and I think this would break the tranny with a larger turbo. Anyone know if I'm just being overly cautious or is this a legitimate fear with this platform? I know very little about the transmission.

I think the smaller GT2560R would be a little safer to use overall, I'm in uncharted territory so I've had to do a lot of research by myself. Advice? Thanks!


(Boring technical/setup N20 stuff follows, don't have to read if you don't want to)

Nitrous with Meth allows me to safely run a very high amount of power when I need it while retaining the fun street characteristics of a small turbo. The Meth can be run very rich with the nitrous while still making power and curbing knocking. The idea is to tune it "by ear" with a wideband O2 in the downpipe, starting very rich and slowly leaning it out until I find something I like. WOT sensor plus an rpm window switch cut 100-200 rpm before redline would allows for a consistent delivery of juice. Meth mix would be in the windshield washer reservoir, 15 lb tank in the boot...maybe where the spare tire is. I would wire in an electric safety relay in with a pressure sensor, which would only allow nitrous in if meth lines are properly pressurized. This is to avoid lean hell...also would have two nitrous solenoid valves in sequence for redundancy. In the cabin I shall have a purge button and an on/off switch. Going to put the fogger somewhere after the intercooler for maximum benefits.

 

[Wimp Lo]

With enough fuel it takes somewhere over 400 whp to break the stock engine.

I'm a bit paranoid and think the throttle body spacer aux fuel isn't entirely foolproof safe because the intake was never designed for wet flow, you might get fuel puddling or if the system fails you get an instant massive lean condition.

These are risks people deal with. To me the gt2560r systems strength is being just enough to max out the fuel system but with quick spool compared to a bigger turbo.

If you are going for big power and aux fuel, the bigger turbos can get you another 100 whp or more that is always there after it spools.

I would be tempted to get a big turbo and a dry shot to spool, the DI fuel system might be able to handle that if you don't overdo it. If the ECU can do it, that might be nice.

 

[yackyz]

I'm new to the fourms! Couldn't find what I'm looking for with searching so I'd figure I'd post a new thread. I think I posted this in the right place

I'm looking to build myself a triple duty track/street/strip (in that order) FiST. I'm going to start off with a Garrett GT2560R with stock internals at first, then down the road rebuild and add the wet shot of nitrous and meth.

1st Question: I've also considered a GT2860RS or a GTX2860R, but I'm concerned that the extra power with stock internals would start to break things before I get a chance to rebuild the engine (think a year or two to save up cash). Anyone who knows about these two turbos could chime in?

2nd Question: A second concern of mine is after I rebuild the engine and add the wet shot, the N20+meth causes the turbo to pretty much spool to max psi instantly. The idea behind this is to have the happy juice fully engage in 3rd and 4th gear on the 1/4 mile (or maybe 2nd if I can get traction). The bad side of this that it will add a CRAZY amount of torque at the beginning of each gear after up-shifting and I think this would break the tranny with a larger turbo. Anyone know if I'm just being overly cautious or is this a legitimate fear with this platform? I know very little about the transmission.

I think the smaller GT2560R would be a little safer to use overall, I'm in uncharted territory so I've had to do a lot of research by myself. Advice? Thanks!


(Boring technical/setup N20 stuff follows, don't have to read if you don't want to)

Nitrous with Meth allows me to safely run a very high amount of power when I need it while retaining the fun street characteristics of a small turbo. The Meth can be run very rich with the nitrous while still making power and curbing knocking. The idea is to tune it "by ear" with a wideband O2 in the downpipe, starting very rich and slowly leaning it out until I find something I like. WOT sensor plus an rpm window switch cut 100-200 rpm before redline would allows for a consistent delivery of juice. Meth mix would be in the windshield washer reservoir, 15 lb tank in the boot...maybe where the spare tire is. I would wire in an electric safety relay in with a pressure sensor, which would only allow nitrous in if meth lines are properly pressurized. This is to avoid lean hell...also would have two nitrous solenoid valves in sequence for redundancy. In the cabin I shall have a purge button and an on/off switch. Going to put the fogger somewhere after the intercooler for maximum benefits.

N20 is very enticing on these cars due to its low end torque. I'm surprised it hasn't garnered more interest. I'd run it N20 at 3rd gear and up for traction purposes. And have you looked into cams? Those are the only internals to my knowledge out at this point, I know DHM is coming out with pistons and rods too.

 

[Xaendeau]

With enough fuel it takes somewhere over 400 whp to break the stock engine.

I'm a bit paranoid and think the throttle body spacer aux fuel isn't entirely foolproof safe because the intake was never designed for wet flow, you might get fuel puddling or if the system fails you get an instant massive lean condition.

These are risks people deal with. To me the gt2560r systems strength is being just enough to max out the fuel system but with quick spool compared to a bigger turbo.

If you are going for big power and aux fuel, the bigger turbos can get you another 100 whp or more that is always there after it spools.

I would be tempted to get a big turbo and a dry shot to spool, the DI fuel system might be able to handle that if you don't overdo it. If the ECU can do it, that might be nice.

Hmm, so with some more research I have found that the stock fuel system isn't likely to break the stock engine, thanks for the reply. It is nice to find multiple people saying the same thing. I haven't put too much thought into a dry shot, but I wonder how lean it would go...I would have to pull back a lot of timing from the base map to keep knocking at bay--maybe 1.5 to 2.0 degrees. The more I read into this engine and the tech, the better I like Ford's engineering. I think Peugeot has these engines going around 260 hp from the factory with the 1.6 engine, I'm based in USA so I don't know too much about it. I might have misread something. It is always a good feeling to know you have a lot of overhead left over in the design. What I've heard from the Mazdaspeed3's, the fuel system / engine is pretty much maxed out from the factory...people blowing engines on stage 2/3 bolt-ons.

 

[Xaendeau]

N20 is very enticing on these cars due to its low end torque. I'm surprised it hasn't garnered more interest. I'd run it N20 at 3rd gear and up for traction purposes. And have you looked into cams? Those are the only internals to my knowledge out at this point, I know DHM is coming out with pistons and rods too.

I haven't heard too much about cams, but then again I haven't looked into it too much. I'll have to take a look into it, thanks! Maybe lose a little bit of bottom end to put it further up and increase the rev limiter...hell do a valve job at the same time with something a little more rev happy.

I really like nitrous, if it is done safe. Just bolting on a dry shot 900 USD kit and praying it won't go too lean is how nitrous has gotten a bad reputation for blowing engines. Wet shots (plain 91/93, e85, ethanol, methanol, racegas, alky+water, whatever) if done right can be much safer long term than big turbos or superchargers for daily driven vehicles. A *good* wet N20 setup might cost you total 2,500 USD while fitting a supercharger/turbo on a NA engine hits above 5,000 USD after misc. parts and labor. N20 doesn't require much mechanical labor, just a bit of tuning. It is pretty common to use the windshield washer fluid tank, since it is already designed to handle Methanol...hell heard some people running WINDSHIELD WASHING FLUID with there wet kit...and it works very well! Makes me a little uncomfortable.
[Edit: Grammar]