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Tune+: Tuning Review and Information Thread

OP
Tune+
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Thread Starter #141
The discount was outlined in the picture above, it was 10% off which makes it $225.00. You didn't have to put in your credit card info, once you added to cart you click "checkout" and you can put in the discount code there on the right hand side.
[MENTION=3329]j2FiST[/MENTION] - Didn't see an order from you.
 


J2FoRS

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Sorry buddy. Was gonna place my order but I thought there would be better sales over the weekend on Intercoolers and there wasn't much really. Now that its winter im baically at a stand still now with the FiST till spring then see whats out there.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #143
Sorry buddy. Was gonna place my order but I thought there would be better sales over the weekend on Intercoolers and there wasn't much really. Now that its winter im baically at a stand still now with the FiST till spring then see whats out there.
Pick one up before spring.
 


J2FoRS

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Pick one up before spring.
Was planning to. But the awe inspiring black Friday deals everyone was going on about waiting for really just didn't come. Will be scanning the Used sale thread over winter and see what brands come up. Unfortunately after cancelling my order with MAP I can't justify re ordering now just to pay way more lol. Such is life. Hopefully you'll still be tuning come spring and some hot new parts may be out. Plus, my EB will need you either way.
 


OP
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Thread Starter #150
He is speaking about them being out of stock, I bought all of Denso had but it will be a bit before they arrive. Probably next week!
 


jayrod1980

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Viva Las Vegas!
Damn you Denso... And Ford too for this terrible heat shield. I bought more tools though so maybe that will help. Swivel ratchet, offset o2 socket, regular o2 socket, extending 1/4 and 3/8 ratchet and a 3/8 swivel breaker bar.
 


jeff

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A question for Adam - I know you are incredibly busy and it seems you do not sleep so thanks in advance, this will earn my business if I can understand things.

So, I read this entire thread and am still struggling with the "no downpipe till bigger turbo" philosophy. I saw your dyno charts and see the objective proof, but the confusing thing is that Cobb's stage 2 to stage 3 improvement seems to completely contradict your info. There are a few different comparisons out there but just for objectivity the easiest to find shows a clear gain in both HP and TQ when adding a downpipe, keeping with the stock turbo, around +7 HP and +15 TQ. Not to mention Cobb's website which shows more objective data demonstrating increases here. Not to mention a dozen plus peanut gallery reviews from early 2014 (on these forums) where people were adding only a downpipe without a tune or anything else and saw noticeable gains....I'm sure some of it was placebo but there are too many to say it's all not true. (EDIT) And even beyond that, our very own sticky on "FAQ/Modification Path" clearly points out the gains of a less restrictive downpipe even with the stock turbo.

So I'm pretty confused, and appreciate your time to help me understand this. I'll be installing my FMIC soon and have a DP ready also but now I'm confused as to whether to get your custom tune at stage 2 or to add the DP and then get a custom tune. Again I did read this entire thread and it's obvious that you know your stuff, and your expertise on the Fiesta ST has sold me as opposed to driving 8 hours for a tune...but I need to understand this before moving on.

Thanks again for your time.
 


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I'm thinking about getting this tune but want to know if I will see any real world difference over a cobb stage 3 OTS and what are the benefits of the cold plugs?
 


OP
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Thread Starter #159
A question for Adam - I know you are incredibly busy and it seems you do not sleep so thanks in advance, this will earn my business if I can understand things.

So, I read this entire thread and am still struggling with the "no downpipe till bigger turbo" philosophy. I saw your dyno charts and see the objective proof, but the confusing thing is that Cobb's stage 2 to stage 3 improvement seems to completely contradict your info. There are a few different comparisons out there but just for objectivity the easiest to find shows a clear gain in both HP and TQ when adding a downpipe, keeping with the stock turbo, around +7 HP and +15 TQ. Not to mention Cobb's website which shows more objective data demonstrating increases here. Not to mention a dozen plus peanut gallery reviews from early 2014 (on these forums) where people were adding only a downpipe without a tune or anything else and saw noticeable gains....I'm sure some of it was placebo but there are too many to say it's all not true. (EDIT) And even beyond that, our very own sticky on "FAQ/Modification Path" clearly points out the gains of a less restrictive downpipe even with the stock turbo.

So I'm pretty confused, and appreciate your time to help me understand this. I'll be installing my FMIC soon and have a DP ready also but now I'm confused as to whether to get your custom tune at stage 2 or to add the DP and then get a custom tune. Again I did read this entire thread and it's obvious that you know your stuff, and your expertise on the Fiesta ST has sold me as opposed to driving 8 hours for a tune...but I need to understand this before moving on.

Thanks again for your time.
Jeff,

A downpipe does increase efficiency of the turbo, however the problem is when you increase the efficiency of a small turbo such as this one you make it "run out of steam" easier. HP is a calculating based off of torque. (Torque x RPM / 5252). When you add a downpipe the torque comes on faster but also plummets faster, and when torque drops so does horsepower. You will see a small increase over the stock downpipe in the lower rpm range, but mostly on lower boost (21-23psi), definitely not on higher boost or PEAK power which is measured at 5252rpms.

Restriction produces torque, as well as many other things. When you remove restriction you lose torque, that is why the stock downpipe shines and provides more peak gains than with a downpipe as the restriction helps hold torque through the rpm range. This is why when some tuners don't properly tune a car and the vehicle has throttle closures it produces a ridiculous amount of torque. The throttle blade closing is a restriction in the system. When I first started tuning Ecoboost vehicles I noticed there was always more power and torque when there were throttle closures, however it causes issues for many other calculations and isn't safe.

For me, more power in the upper rpm is more ideal as when you are rowing through the gears you aren't starting at 1500rpms in each gear. So anyway to keep torque up through the rpm range is what I would prefer, and recommend to do.
 


jeff

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Jeff,

A downpipe does increase efficiency of the turbo, however the problem is when you increase the efficiency of a small turbo such as this one you make it "run out of steam" easier. HP is a calculating based off of torque. (Torque x RPM / 5252). When you add a downpipe the torque comes on faster but also plummets faster, and when torque drops so does horsepower. You will see a small increase over the stock downpipe in the lower rpm range, but mostly on lower boost (21-23psi), definitely not on higher boost or PEAK power which is measured at 5252rpms.

Restriction produces torque, as well as many other things. When you remove restriction you lose torque, that is why the stock downpipe shines and provides more peak gains than with a downpipe as the restriction helps hold torque through the rpm range. This is why when some tuners don't properly tune a car and the vehicle has throttle closures it produces a ridiculous amount of torque. The throttle blade closing is a restriction in the system. When I first started tuning Ecoboost vehicles I noticed there was always more power and torque when there were throttle closures, however it causes issues for many other calculations and isn't safe.

For me, more power in the upper rpm is more ideal as when you are rowing through the gears you aren't starting at 1500rpms in each gear. So anyway to keep torque up through the rpm range is what I would prefer, and recommend to do.
Thanks for the reply and for the time on the phone. If I could put this in layman's terms, a downpipe will increase low end torque but the trade-off is a loss/restriction of high end torque. So it's about preference, do you want even more of a donkey kick early on or do you want more consistent power throughout the rev range? Already going to the OTS stage 1 tune I am finding low end power useless (wheel spin) and would trade it for more consistent power from 3-7,000 rpms.

If all of this is true, and I believe Adam here, then my conclusion is that any selling of downpipes, along with the OTS stage 3 maps, without a turbo upgrade, is simply more torque but torque that is pretty much unusable. And also that a stage 2 car (CAI plus FMIC) with a proper tune will not only produce more power/torque but also perform better than a stage 3 car (DP plus exhaust) with an OTS tune.

For me, someone who wants more usable power everywhere instead of insane tire-spinning torque, this changes my plans for a downpipe and now puts my focus on installing the FMIC and getting the best tune possible.

Help me if I'm off here.
 


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