"COLD" air intakes??????

[Barry WA]

This will undoubtedly start a big argument but, what the heck. Bring it on.

I recently changed my air filter......put in the brand new factory paper filter that came with the car. I removed the K&N filter
I installed in the car's first week of life. That was in June 2014. Thought I better check it......duhhhhh. Anyway it was only moderately soiled, but I took it out and washed it......and replaced it with the OEM filter to let the K&N dry thoroughly. While I had the factory airbox open, I noticed that it has an inlet pipe running to the front grille.......in other words it's sucking in cold air from outside the engine compartment......as opposed to the so-called "Cold air" setups that bring in the hot air trapped under the hood.

Now I have watched multiple video's checking cold air intakes against factory air boxes.......with dyno results showing zero horse power gain, and in some cases even less horsepower than the factory set up.

I will stick with the factory air box. I believe these so-called cold air intakes are BS and hype. And......frankly my unscientific seat of the pants test for the factory filter versus the K&N is.............the car "feels" quicker with the factory filter.

BTW, I love the car.......just creeping up on 20,000 miles with zero issues.

 

[CanadianGuy]

If you like it it is your car. Mountune used a similar box but added a second larger air hole on the bottom with a hose to suck cold air for the fender/lower car area.

 

[Hijinx]

It probably was more efficient because the old filter was dirty... /commonsense

 

[me32]

You can actually open the ram air setup to allow more air. A few guys have done it on the site

 

[dyn085]

There's no major difference between the OEM filter and a high-flow filter in the OEM box, outside of filtration.

There's less concern with having 'cold' air on an intercooled system than if it were n/a or non-intercooled. You'll gain more power through increased turbo efficiency with the use of a properly-designed intake than through having the colder air. Not that cold air is a bad thing, it's just not the most important aspect in an intake for us.


But on the OEM turbo, it's not difficult to max out anyways.

 

[Barry WA]

There's no major difference between the OEM filter and a high-flow filter in the OEM box, outside of filtration.

There's less concern with having 'cold' air on an intercooled system than if it were n/a or non-intercooled. You'll gain more power through increased turbo efficiency with the use of a properly-designed intake than through having the colder air. Not that cold air is a bad thing, it's just not the most important aspect in an intake for us.


But on the OEM turbo, it's not difficult to max out anyways.

Do you know of ANY modern turbocharged engines that do not have an intercooler? The intercooler is designed to cool the turbo and the re-circulated air. It has nothing at all to do with the fresh air coming in at the top end. It is a fact that colder denser air has greater volume than warm or hot air.....heat expands the air making it less dense. More volume = more air.......more air = more power. It just makes common sense that air being drawn in from the outside is cooler than the air in the engine compartment. Ford probably spent several million developing the OEM intake system to be a good compromise between performance and longevity. You mess with that at your own peril. I have yet to see any convincing evidence that under-hood (cone air filters) intakes do anything but empty your wallet.

 

[frankiefiesta]

Do you know of ANY modern turbocharged engines that do not have an intercooler? The intercooler is designed to cool the turbo and the re-circulated air. It has nothing at all to do with the fresh air coming in at the top end. It is a fact that colder denser air has greater volume than warm or hot air.....heat expands the air making it less dense. More volume = more air.......more air = more power. It just makes common sense that air being drawn in from the outside is cooler than the air in the engine compartment. Ford probably spent several million developing the OEM intake system to be a good compromise between performance and longevity. You mess with that at your own peril. I have yet to see any convincing evidence that under-hood (cone air filters) intakes do anything but empty your wallet.

Lol oh, is that what it does? The reason you do not need the intake air temps to be as cold as possible is because the intercooler is what helps cool the air temps before it directly enters the engine. You might find it hard to believe but the air cools a lot when you have an aftermarket intercooler.

Yes the stock intake may be very good, but there are other, newer options out there that will perform better. The aluminum tube intakes and open filters do not help when it comes to heat soak, but they aren't crippling the cars

 

[dyn085]

Do you know of ANY modern turbocharged engines that do not have an intercooler? The intercooler is designed to cool the turbo and the re-circulated air. It has nothing at all to do with the fresh air coming in at the top end. It is a fact that colder denser air has greater volume than warm or hot air.....heat expands the air making it less dense. More volume = more air.......more air = more power. It just makes common sense that air being drawn in from the outside is cooler than the air in the engine compartment. Ford probably spent several million developing the OEM intake system to be a good compromise between performance and longevity. You mess with that at your own peril. I have yet to see any convincing evidence that under-hood (cone air filters) intakes do anything but empty your wallet.

Clearly you want to argue, but I'm assuming you don't know how?

I never specified 'turbocharged', only na and non-intercooled. That should imply forced induction as a whole, not simply limit the discussion to turbocharged engines.

Seems how you know everything, what is the temperature of that cold air once it leaves the compressor? With that number, do you think a few degrees are going to make a discernible difference in power? I don't recall a single intake that's offered showing a loss of power over the OEM setup, and those that do as good or better immediately discount your 'facts' and essentially show that an improved FMIC is far more important than where there air is initially ingested from.

 

[tjd_tdi]

Clearly you want to argue, but I'm assuming you don't know how?

I lol'd.

 

[RobK]

I lol'd.

+1 haha

 

[D1JL]

It's ok.
Some people can provide both sides of the same argument.


Dave

 

[RobK]

It's ok.
Some people can provide both sides of the same argument.


Dave

I agree it was just the way it was said that was funny.

 

[redsilvy]

Wait, what was the point of this thread?

 

[Zissou]

Wait, what was the point of this thread?

OP doesn't like aftermarket intakes. Wants to share his opinion / argue it. I think...

 

[D1JL]

Wait, what was the point of this thread?

I have often wondered that about many threads here.



Dave

 

[dyn085]

Wait, what was the point of this thread?

I amended the first post to only the first two sentences-

This will undoubtedly start a big argument but, what the heck. Bring it on.

That pretty much covers it.

 

[pelotonracer2]

Do you know of ANY modern turbocharged engines that do not have an intercooler? The intercooler is designed to cool the turbo and the re-circulated air. It has nothing at all to do with the fresh air coming in at the top end. It is a fact that colder denser air has greater volume than warm or hot air.....heat expands the air making it less dense. More volume = more air.......more air = more power. It just makes common sense that air being drawn in from the outside is cooler than the air in the engine compartment. Ford probably spent several million developing the OEM intake system to be a good compromise between performance and longevity. You mess with that at your own peril. I have yet to see any convincing evidence that under-hood (cone air filters) intakes do anything but empty your wallet.

I don't even know where to start with this.... lol. I'm confused by your terminology, especially the "cooling the turbo" and "recirculated air" parts... Forced induction is about increasing VELOCITY. Superchargers force air into the intake and turbos pull air from the exhaust side.

First and formost, "volume" of air (flow) has nothing to do with air inlet/charge temps, unless you were talking about "oxygen volume". Both aspects are NOT the same. In the end, the only thing that matters is inlet CHARGE temps. This relates more to intercooler efficiency than it does air intake temps (fresh air). You can have super cool, ambient air being picked up by the intake, but if the intake design is restrictive to overall flow it's not going to increase power potential. Intake tubing, length and materials also play a role in inlet air temps. The longer the tubing is, the more heat will be absorbed into the intake (heating the intake air).

As I said earlier, with forced induction you increase power by increasing velocity. As dyno85 already stated, increasing cooling via a better intercooler (larger volume without increasing pressure loss significantly) is more important than getting cool air at the intake source. I already stated in another intake related thread that I noticed no discernable difference in CHARGE temps using an FSWERKs intake (open element) and a Cobb intake (which utilizes the stock airbox) once I upgraded to a Cobb intercooler. The FSWERKs conical intake grabs "hot" air from under the hood, where as the Cobb uses the stock box and snorkel system. One aspect I forgot to mention in the other thread was that turbo spool is noticeably better using the FSWERKS intake but this is only true when underhood temps/charge temps have been stabilized (once you are moving). Yes there is a bit more heat soak if you are stuck in traffic in stop and go situations, but it is not nearly as bad now that I have the Cobb intercooler. Heat soak with the stock IC was unbearable. All intercoolers are not created equal... some are better (or worse than others) at cooling the air charge. With that said, with our stock FiST intercooler sucking major balls, the BEST way to decrease charge temps is by upgrading to an aftermarket IC. The stock one is "adequate" for stock power levels, but not optimal by any means. The same can be said about the airbox. When I look at it I don't see a "good compromise between performance and longevity.".... I see a compromise between performance and production costs. Based on the injection molding and construction (lots of hard angles, corners, lips, crinkles,and casting/molding flash), it appears the bean counters won. LOL. Getting rid of turbulence in the path of the airflow within the intake can also improve throttle response and increase power potential as well, albeit less significantly. Any place you can improve on air transition and smooth out flow over objects the better. The stock box intake will work fine on a STOCK vehicle, especially one still utilizing the stock turbo, which is actually the biggest bottleneck to making power on this platform.

 

[D1JL]

I don't even know where to start with this.... lol. I'm confused by your terminology, especially the "cooling the turbo" and "recirculated air" parts... Forced induction is about increasing VELOCITY. Superchargers force air into the intake and turbos pull air from the exhaust side.

Let's just start with this.
It is obvious you don't know where to start but let's just clear up this point.

Superchargers and turbochargers do EXACTLY the same thing, they are just driven in a different manor.
A supercharger is normally belt driven from the crankshaft.
Whereas turbochargers are driven by an impeller in the exhaust flow.
They are both compressors and force fresh air into the intake.

To say that "turbos pull air from the exhaust side" is not only wrong, It would NOT even work.
Exhaust gas is mostly inert therefore to pull air from the exhaust, would cause the car not to run.

Now that this point has been corrected, please go on with the argument.



Dave

 

[Hijinx]

I'm just gonna sit this one out while eating some popcorn.

 

[D1JL]

I'm just gonna sit this one out while eating some popcorn.

I just needed to fix that one point.
I'm not touching the rest of that.
It's too early to take sides yet, so I think I will join you.


Dave