No boost?

[XuperXero]

Did you contact Pumaspeed?.

You could try emailing Andrew Ward, he is the guy that writes the MAXD tunes.

Still in contact with Tony about the problem. Asked me what I mods I had on the car. Just Mountune induction hose and oil catch can. He asked me to check oil catch can. I removed it today and reconnected stock PCV tube. Problem still persists, waiting for his feedback.

Hey XuperXero,

Have you tried contacting Ford China? They'll be in the best position to assist. Their number is +86 (0) 800-810-0740.

Nick

Hi Nick, Thanks for your suggestion. I've been in contact with my local dealer and they have not been able to diagnose anything. My car (both VIN and ECU model #) doesn't even exists on their OBD reader. You have to keep in mind that while Ford does a great job servicing their customers in North America and having all the information/data ready, it's not the same on this side of the world...




Another update:
Start car, low boost (peak 5 psi, 1-3psi across the rpm range).
Drive a bit until engine fully warm.
Rev the car in neutral to 6000rpm at a stoplight.
Drive again, boost slowly comes back to normal.
Above mentioned procedure does not work every time, (but did happen twice today). sometimes it just doesn't work and stay in low boost.
Idle is random. In 1 red light, rock solid at 750rpm, the next light, it fluctuates between 1300-1500 rpm, pattern varies at every light and sometimes stays 750rpm the whole time.

Any new ideas? Car has been on stock tune ever since the problem existed.

 

[Hijinx]

Have you tried checking the wastegate yet?

 

[XuperXero]

Have you tried checking the wastegate yet?

Not yet. Spending about 2 hours a day at ford working with their mechanics to fix the issue then rushing to work to work overtime until 9pm to keep up the workload, not much time to get under the car. Ford mechanics insists it's not wastegate.

But here's an peculiar update...

I took the car to Ford 3 days in a row because engine check light was on. Turns out to be a "air leak" as detected by their OBD reader. Spent 2 hours each day diagnosing with their mechanics. Turns out my Mountune induction hose had a crack inside where the vacuum nipple connects to. Swapped back to OEM induction tube. Problem seems to be gone.

I decided to REALLY test it out. I flash MAXD tune stage 1+ tune. Went for a few run. Problem came back on the last run.

Turn engine off when I got to work. Sits for a good 8 hours before I go home. Car has full power again. My suspicion is either because it keeps seeing 30 psi of boost and I keep pushing it to 7,000rpm. I decide to go home staying under 6500 rpm. Guess what? No problem. Repeat this next day to work, no problem. Repeat this on the way home, no probem.

So... Apparently if I go over 6500rpm, something happens. I manage to hit 32psi in the last couple of days. No problem. Going into redline seems to be the culprit. I still can't figure out which part though.

 

[Hijinx]

Not yet. Spending about 2 hours a day at ford working with their mechanics to fix the issue then rushing to work to work overtime until 9pm to keep up the workload, not much time to get under the car. Ford mechanics insists it's not wastegate.

But here's an peculiar update...

I took the car to Ford 3 days in a row because engine check light was on. Turns out to be a "air leak" as detected by their OBD reader. Spent 2 hours each day diagnosing with their mechanics. Turns out my Mountune induction hose had a crack inside where the vacuum nipple connects to. Swapped back to OEM induction tube. Problem seems to be gone.

I decided to REALLY test it out. I flash MAXD tune stage 1+ tune. Went for a few run. Problem came back on the last run.

Turn engine off when I got to work. Sits for a good 8 hours before I go home. Car has full power again. My suspicion is either because it keeps seeing 30 psi of boost and I keep pushing it to 7,000rpm. I decide to go home staying under 6500 rpm. Guess what? No problem. Repeat this next day to work, no problem. Repeat this on the way home, no probem.

So... Apparently if I go over 6500rpm, something happens. I manage to hit 32psi in the last couple of days. No problem. Going into redline seems to be the culprit. I still can't figure out which part though.

Is your tune supposed to be 30psi? If it's not, you're overboosting (boost creep) which is a sign of a damaged wastegate diaphragm. OR your car is going into limp mode and your code isn't popping. I don't think 30-32 psi is good on the stock turbo.

What psi are you seeing at 6500-7000?

 

[XuperXero]

Is your tune supposed to be 30psi? If it's not, you're overboosting (boost creep) which is a sign of a damaged wastegate diaphragm. OR your car is going into limp mode and your code isn't popping. I don't think 30-32 psi is good on the stock turbo.

What psi are you seeing at 6500-7000?

30-32 psi only happens around 2700-2900 rpm. Boost tapered down to 14-15 by 6500-7000. I have no idea what the tune target boost is, still waiting for reply from Pumaspeed.

I went to work today (yes I work Sundays just to keep up workload). Kept under 6500, saw 30psi 3 times today, most of the time it peaks at 28psi. No issues on the way to work, or to dinner with friends or on the way home. Car ran solid and felt amazing. I pushed it hard too when I was rushing for the dinner because I was late and no problems there either.

I haven't had the guts to try over 6500 anymore as that seems to be the culprit.

Car is still Stage 1+ tune with 98 RON gas.

 

[Joszer]

Check your PVC hose. I've blown mine off on a few WOT pulls and have had the same symptoms. Make sure that the connections are tight with no leaks.

 

[XuperXero]

Check your PVC hose. I've blown mine off on a few WOT pulls and have had the same symptoms. Make sure that the connections are tight with no leaks.

Original suspicion was the PCV, tight as virgin.



Update: It appears that TorquePro may not have been reading boost correctly. I changed the boost calculation method, now it only peaks at 22.8psi which sounds about right for this reflash and hence why my engine has never experienced any pinging. Remember, TorquePro only reads off ECU and gives data in which you have to input your own equation to read the data correctly.

Car still runs good as long as I avoid over 6500 rpm. Been problem free so far. I'm loving this Stage 1+ tune!! Car is so much more alive!!

 

[MOFiST]

It sounds like they've found your issue with the intake hose then? If it was a decent size air leak then "un-metered" air post MAF would have been getting in and the A/F ratios gone to crap. The ECU likely then went into limp mode. Any idea what the CEL was?

 

[XuperXero]

Update: Problem came back.

Got CEL, took to dealership. Read P2176 which is "Throttle Actuator Control System Idle Position Not Learned". Resetted ECU and cleared codes a few times, this kept popping back. Car also showed erratic idle and at one point during test driving, it wouldn't go over 1600rpm and had like 10hp. Had to kept shifting into higher gear to keep up the speed of traffic and putting a lot of load on engine. Luckily the Ford mechanic was in the car and witnessed the whole situation.

Left car there, they told me they took the intake manifold off to inspect a valve inside the manifold (why the hell do we have a valve inside the intake mani??). Today I went back to have a look, they said the valve was not a problem. Now they're suspecting the ECU as culprit. They'll be replacing the ECU to test it out.

After searching around it appears Ford can find out if I've reflashed the ECU or not. Looks like I may be running into warranty problems soon...

 

[Sekred]

Did you resolve this ECU problem?.

 

[XuperXero]

Just car the car back last week... It took over 3 months. Since customer service is non-existent in China, no loaner was given. Ford won't reimburse public transportation fees either.

So the issue was fixed. Mechanically, the engine, turbo, wastegate and whatnot are all in perfect working order. They took apart the engine inside out and found nothing. The culprit? The ECU.
Although the ECU was replaced, I don't have that piece of mind that what if the mechanics (especially they're all young kids) forgot a bolt or dropped something or contaminated a sensor since they took the engine apart.

The issue was so severe that the dealership could not diagnose it and they ended up calling Ford China HQ and they sent an engineer over. Here's the kicker: They CAN find out that the ECU was reflashed and even the time and date of each flash. They let it go and covered the ECU and labor under warranty. But threatened to void the rest of my warranty if they find my ECU flashed again.

Since this issue happened right after the MAXD tune from Pumaspeed, I'm concerned it was caused by the tune. Although after few email exchanges, Tony kept trying to reassure me that it was a faulty ECU from factory, I'm not convinced. But I still want the tune. So I have a choice of tuning again and hoping that it was actually faulty ECU from factory or have another ECU go kaput and pay out of my own pocket with remainder of the warranty voided. Now I'm in a dilemma of what I should do. What do you guys think?

 

[koozy]

I think the MAXD tune screwed your ECU and Tony can take a hike. Unless you have other tuning options, you should probably prepare to pay out of pocket for another ECU if you attempt to go with MAXD and it fries your ECU again.

 

[Sekred]

I would ditch the MAXD tune and contact Peron if your still keen on getting a tune. Peron do a lot of work in the Asia region and when spoke to their tuner months ago, I seem to remember him saying something about the difficulty in tuning the Asian STs.

 

[XuperXero]

I think the MAXD tune screwed your ECU and Tony can take a hike. Unless you have other tuning options, you should probably prepare to pay out of pocket for another ECU if you attempt to go with MAXD and it fries your ECU again.

I would ditch the MAXD tune and contact Peron if your still keen on getting a tune. Peron do a lot of work in the Asia region and when spoke to their tuner months ago, I seem to remember him saying something about the difficulty in tuning the Asian STs.

Tony has also refused refund. I only asked for partial refund since it's used. But Tony has responded that it is not the tune's fault and my ECU was faulty from factory. I'm not sure how to take his response.

 

[koozy]

Tony has also refused refund. I only asked for partial refund since it's used. But Tony has responded that it is not the tune's fault and my ECU was faulty from factory. I'm not sure how to take his response.

see if he'll back up his product/service if you flash with the new ECU if you still want to use them. if he believes in his product, he should back it up. kinda risky, cause you could still be left with the bill.

 

[XuperXero]

see if he'll back up his product/service if you flash with the new ECU if you still want to use them. if he believes in his product, he should back it up. kinda risky, cause you could still be left with the bill.

Here's excerpt of our emails. No response after the most recent email 4 days ago.

On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 11:02 PM, David wrote:
Hi Tony,

That's not what you said previously. Please see what you wrote earlier:

On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 7:39 AM, <Sales@pumaspeed.co.uk> wrote:

There are no invasive processes to cause this
If he ecu was programmed with bad info the car would simply not start

If the ecu ws programed correctly but had a very poor mapping the would start and run but power would be affected.

Can I 100% guarantee the car will never do this again ??? 100% no, but no one else has ever reported a bad experience like this


Regards

Tony McQuire



The issue I had was EXACTLY what you described.
I don't want to drag this longer as much as you do, but as a customer here that just had 3 months of downtime with no guarantee or fall back that it might happen again. You are not exactly giving your customer much confidence.

There is a first time for everything, so even if you have never experienced issues with other cars does not mean your reflash did not cause this. If you are so confident that it was not the reflash, then you should be offering a peace of mind for the customer just to back your products and your words up.


Looking forward to a more promising response from you.

Best Regards,
David


On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 7:04 PM, <Sales@pumaspeed.co.uk> wrote:
We have never had any issues, ever

The ecu on the st180 cannot be made faulty by a tune file being introduced to 256k of the 2mb
If the file is wrong the car will instantly not run.

So the answer is no

Regards

Tony McQuire
A & K McQuire Ltd (T/A Pumaspeed)
178 Batley Road
Alverthorpe
Wakefield WF2 0AJ
Pumaspeed.co.uk
Milltekexhaust.Pumaspeed.co.uk +44 (0)1924 360002

From: David
Sent: 20 January 2016 03:01

To: Sales@pumaspeed.co.uk
Subject: Re: Tuning files for Stage 1 and Stage 1+

Hi Tony,

I can see that you are confident in your tunes. But the risk is high for me and I would like to reduce the risk of remainder of my warranty being void and having to foot the repair costs myself.

So therefore, I would like to ask what you are willing to compensate if I flash your tune again and the ECU becomes faulty again?

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 4:32 AM, <Sales@pumaspeed.co.uk> wrote:
Im sorry we are not at liberty to give these details, he does not wish for end user contact, he does not have the time
I can pass on any email you wish.

His files are static and have not been updated or changed he has used them many times and no errors have been reported

Regards

Tony McQuire
A & K McQuire Ltd (T/A Pumaspeed)
178 Batley Road
Alverthorpe
Wakefield WF2 0AJ
Pumaspeed.co.uk
Milltekexhaust.Pumaspeed.co.uk +44 (0)1924 360002

From: David Li
Sent: 19 January 2016 08:34

To: Sales@pumaspeed.co.uk
Subject: Re: Tuning files for Stage 1 and Stage 1+

Hi Tony,

Can you give me the contact details of your tuner?

On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 8:33 AM, <Sales@pumaspeed.co.uk> wrote:
Sorry David but the device is used. Also we have never seen this issue before so I believe that the unit and mapping not be at fault.
The ECU as I have mentioned earlier must have been compromised directly from the factory…


Regards

Tony McQuire

 

[Fasta123]

Here's excerpt of our emails. No response after the most recent email 4 days ago.

I feel for you mate, your being very patient and polite. It's not nice to spend all that money on a brand new car that you love and then buy what you think is a high quality tune and have that happen. If I were you I would continue my correspondence with "tony" like you are... If he doesn't respond for more then two weeks or if he responds saying he won't reimburse you if the ecu is damaged again he clearly is just trying to rip u. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt for know just to be a gentleman, but if either of those happen I would just chalk it up to bad luck... Warn others, leave negative feedback online and that's that. Find a new tuner and tell him about what's happened in the past and use your judgement as to whether he is another tony or not. Good luck mate

 

[MOFiST]

I don't get what part of the device is "used".
It's a device which flashes code onto your ECU.
The digital code inside the flash memory could not be "used".
I'd ask them to deduct the cost price of the hardware off and refund you for their code which has caused you the dramas.
This really needs to be a PSA for anyone dealing with Pumaspeed I reckon.
You paid for a tune which not only didn't work as advertised but damaged you car.
The only way you can get something like a fair hearing is by letting everyone know.

 

[Knower-of-nothing]

just be glad ford actually didnt void your warranty the first time and covered the ECU/labour, i dont see how you're even in the position to expect ford to cover you in the first place given you should know the inherent risk involved with ecu tuning...and that ford are well within their rights to dishonour your warranty, you should be grateful more than anything because if it was here in Aus...rofl, well lets just say you'd be royally fucked because ford are the worst when it comes to warranty.

now that being said, you probably did have an dodgy ECU...noone else seems to have reported any similar issues or any issues at all with the PS tune in the thread. so has anyone else had an issue with pumaspeed and their tunes? because it seems like the OP just got unlucky since tony has a good point, ive never heard of a tune to be this sporadic there is most certainly other underlying factors in this situation that you dont know of.

 

[XuperXero]

just be glad ford actually didnt void your warranty the first time and covered the ECU/labour, i dont see how you're even in the position to expect ford to cover you in the first place given you should know the inherent risk involved with ecu tuning...and that ford are well within their rights to dishonour your warranty, you should be grateful more than anything because if it was here in Aus...rofl, well lets just say you'd be royally fucked because ford are the worst when it comes to warranty.

now that being said, you probably did have an dodgy ECU...noone else seems to have reported any similar issues or any issues at all with the PS tune in the thread. so has anyone else had an issue with pumaspeed and their tunes? because it seems like the OP just got unlucky since tony has a good point, ive never heard of a tune to be this sporadic there is most certainly other underlying factors in this situation that you dont know of.

I'm pretty sure mine was a one off situation, but after getting Revo tuned, I'm don't have much faith in lower costs reflash anymore.
Pumaspeed's tune file was 256kb. Revo's was 4.1Mb. Big difference there, Revo actually reprograms a lot of parameters and ensures 0% failure rate. Pumaspeed is just an overlay of data on top of existing ones. I'd gladly pay more seeing how much more work Revo put into their tune.

FYI, those Ford mechanics had to stay overtime working until 9pm almost everyday diagnosing my issue. Everyday after work when I can, I would buy them some meals and drinks. A little goes a long way .