Beat The Heat! Mishimoto Intercooler R&D!

[Izzy]

Since it was tested...and my inquiring mind bugs the hell out of me...can we see the J-Line results posted here?

 

[J2FoRS]

Guess im out of this intercooler cause i plan on going big turbo later on.

Indeed.
Does seem very weird to develop something with such a low HP rating. Hopefully people pay attention to this before ordering based on their plans. But a suitable stage 2/3 only upgrade if you have a heavy wallet! Haha

 

[mishimoto1]

Since it was tested...and my inquiring mind bugs the hell out of me...can we see the J-Line results posted here?

Sure! I will work on putting together a few plots for the J-line.

Indeed.
Does seem very weird to develop something with such a low HP rating. Hopefully people pay attention to this before ordering based on their plans. But a suitable stage 2/3 only upgrade if you have a heavy wallet! Haha

The goal with this intercooler was not to support extremely high powered vehicles. Our J-line is used by numerous members and supports up to around 550whp, so we already have that end covered. Because of this, we wanted to develop something more ideal for folks upgrading power but not pushing past the 325whp mark. This way we can offer two options for two different sets of goals.

Thanks
-John

 

[Bluedrank]

Sure! I will work on putting together a few plots for the J-line.



The goal with this intercooler was not to support extremely high powered vehicles. Our J-line is used by numerous members and supports up to around 550whp, so we already have that end covered. Because of this, we wanted to develop something more ideal for folks upgrading power but not pushing past the 325whp mark. This way we can offer two options for two different sets of goals.

Thanks
-John

This is excellent and very much appreciated. While I'm sure many of the people here dream of putting down big numbers, a vast majority of us will end somewhere around stage 2. One size fits all isn't always the best.

 

[Turbo65]

This is excellent and very much appreciated. While I'm sure many of the people here dream of putting down big numbers, a vast majority of us will end somewhere around stage 2. One size fits all isn't always the best.

Well put, all I need is stage 2 type power not looking to go all out. I can only get 91 octane round here so that limits things any way.

 

[Izzy]

Sure! I will work on putting together a few plots for the J-line.



The goal with this intercooler was not to support extremely high powered vehicles. Our J-line is used by numerous members and supports up to around 550whp, so we already have that end covered. Because of this, we wanted to develop something more ideal for folks upgrading power but not pushing past the 325whp mark. This way we can offer two options for two different sets of goals.

Thanks
-John

TY for the J-Line plots...looking forward to them!

 

[mishimoto1]

This is excellent and very much appreciated. While I'm sure many of the people here dream of putting down big numbers, a vast majority of us will end somewhere around stage 2. One size fits all isn't always the best.

Yes, great point. We determined that one size fits all was not adequate for this particular project.

TY for the J-Line plots...looking forward to them!

No problem. Hoping to put a post together for you later this week.

Thanks
-John

 

[mishimoto1]

Good News!

Our Fiesta ST intercooler pre-sale is now live! Check out the details below and let me know if you have any specific questions!

Pre-Sale Link

Estimated Ship Date / Pre-Sale Expiration
5/31/2016

Includes
(1) Mishimoto Intercooler
(2) Air Diversion Panels with Assembled Rubber Trim
Mounting Hardware
Mishimoto Lifetime Warranty

Pre-Sale Link

Let us know if you have any questions about our intercooler!

Thanks!
-John

 

[TrickSTer]

I have been looking forward to this product and following the development process, with interest.

However, I don't understand how you can do all the testing with a bar and plate construction and then switch to a tube and fin construction for the final product.

I'm not saying tube and fin is inferior, in fact I like the weight savings of the format. And, logically, I would think it would offer better thermal transfer making it more efficient; the wise choice (although I am well aware of previous threads that have argued the merits of each, generally by their respective manufacturers).

It seems to me you tested apples and oranges, did final selections on a set of oranges and are now going to offer us a really nice apple!

I would hope to see a final comparison of the finalized tube and fin unit against bar and plate #3 and bar and plate #4.

So you're going ahead with the pre-sale before publishing the final comparison results????

Bump

 

[darin1992]

How long will the pre sale pricing be up?

Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind, I read it again and saw it was the 10th of May.

 

[mishimoto1]

Bump

Once we have our final product complete we can work on acquiring finalized data. As previously noted, we anticipate numbers to be very similar to our initial results.

How long will the pre sale pricing be up?

Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind, I read it again and saw it was the 10th of May.

Correct!

-John

 

[J2FoRS]

When will final data be available? Seems weird throwing money at something that hasn't been tested. Hopefully you provide this before the pre sale ends.

Also, I tried to look but can't see it anywhere, can you give the dimensions, core volume, frontal area of final product for comparison purposes? The final product looks amazing, and I'm glad you decided to keep the diverters

 

[KraZe]

Their website has the final core dimensions at 28.8" x 4.92" x 2.56" = 362.74 cubic inches of volume.

Waiting on Mishimoto to confirm if these are accurate.

 

[Izzy]

J-Line data?

 

[J2FoRS]

Hating to sound like a noob. But in this instance I really wish some of the more knowledgable members would give this a look. Everyone who is already big turbo and super upgraded doesn't necessarily pipe up in these lower build item threads anymore with their thoughts on build, size, etc. Here's to hoping some of them take the time to drop a few thoughts, without being full on noob and tagging.


EDIT: Alright, I'll be the noob and get flamed. Please come and offer some insight on this intercooler. My concerns are: 1. It's small in comparison to most (if not all) other aftermarket. 2. It's Tube and Fin (I am well versed on the differences and read ALL archives on here) however it maintains a really high price point. 3. It is specifically built for "lower range" horsepower ~300. (I never plan to exceed stage 3). 4. They tested with a B&P but released a dataless T&F. 5. NO ONE is discussing this cooler. (This urks me the most really, is it being ignored because not a great option)

I hope some of you will offer your 2 cents.

 

[dyn085]

Hating to sound like a noob. But in this instance I really wish some of the more knowledgable members would give this a look. Everyone who is already big turbo and super upgraded doesn't necessarily pipe up in these lower build item threads anymore with their thoughts on build, size, etc. Here's to hoping some of them take the time to drop a few thoughts, without being full on noob and tagging.


EDIT: Alright, I'll be the noob and get flamed. Please come and offer some insight on this intercooler. My concerns are: 1. It's small in comparison to most (if not all) other aftermarket. 2. It's Tube and Fin (I am well versed on the differences and read ALL archives on here) however it maintains a really high price point. 3. It is specifically built for "lower range" horsepower ~300. (I never plan to exceed stage 3). 4. They tested with a B&P but released a dataless T&F. 5. NO ONE is discussing this cooler. (This urks me the most really, is it being ignored because not a great option)

I hope some of you will offer your 2 cents.

What the hell, I'll give a random opinion. I'll try to highlight some good things and some negative things because I'm not really for/against anything. I don't usually post about things without seeing third-party data, but it's Saturday and I really don't have anything better to do.

This is kind of difficult to voice an opinion on because what was developed in testing is not the same as the product that's being sold. That, in and of itself, seems really weird to me. I think I would have been more ok with it had there been a follow-up test with the actual unit to substantiate the previous data utilizing different cores.

T/F is generally not as robust as B/P, and that has been shown with the one single currently-available T/F option not performing very well in temperature reduction. That doesn't necessarily mean that this particular T/F option will do as bad, but it kind of plays into my previous thought. I would imagine that if people have issues with the CAT reduction or with damage from normal road-debris that they would speak-up, but there is very limited data on the other T/F so it really comes down with how honest/critical the initial end-users are once they put some mileage on them.

That's enough bad, here are some good-

I like the fact that the OEM turbo is the intended power level. A lot of FiST owners seem to be of the mentality that CAT is the only consideration for an FMIC, and that couldn't be any farther from the truth. Sacrificing a few degrees of CAT for minimal pressure loss is going to be light-years better than having a core that has 5 psi pressure loss but CAT stays at ambient. Think about how much turbo life you're saving if you're running 22.5 psi at the turbo outlet to get 22 psi at the intake manifold versus running 25-27 psi at the outlet to get the same 22 psi IM pressure. Pressure drop is a much bigger deal than its actually given credit for.

Finally, Mishimoto has built basically their entire business around managing and transferring heat. That should speak volumes towards their cumulative knowledge/expertise and I think that this is one of the few instances in this community where I would expect end-user results to mirror what has been posted.

 

[J2FoRS]

Thank you so much [MENTION=930]dyn085[/MENTION]. I was hoping you'd find your way over along with a few others. Your comments are sort of what I expected for the bad, but are very helpful for the good. The pressure loss is big for me. I have zero plans to go big turbo, it's just my daily, I just want a good quality, good fitment cooler. The tube and fin as far as I know should be much lighter in comparison to a bar and plate? Which is also good if that's the case for me. I assume when you mention the "other" T+F one you referring to the Mountune? I was also considering that route. Now that this Mishi one has released it's dimensions are actually smaller than the Mountune, but similar design I guess. I trust both companies, and by your expectations of Mishi it sounds like you trust their products too. The design looks great, I just wish there was data, specs, weight etc available for it but I'm hoping there will be before the Pre-sale ends.

 

[timboslice]

Thank you so much [MENTION=930]dyn085[/MENTION]. I was hoping you'd find your way over along with a few others. Your comments are sort of what I expected for the bad, but are very helpful for the good. The pressure loss is big for me. I have zero plans to go big turbo, it's just my daily, I just want a good quality, good fitment cooler. The tube and fin as far as I know should be much lighter in comparison to a bar and plate? Which is also good if that's the case for me. I assume when you mention the "other" T+F one you referring to the Mountune? I was also considering that route. Now that this Mishi one has released it's dimensions are actually smaller than the Mountune, but similar design I guess. I trust both companies, and by your expectations of Mishi it sounds like you trust their products too. The design looks great, I just wish there was data, specs, weight etc available for it but I'm hoping there will be before the Pre-sale ends.

T and F intercoolers are theoretically much more efficient, lighter and are typically used in more exotic OEM applications.

It looks like Mishi has put quite a bit of thought into this piece and it represents actual development (not just welding end tanks onto a off the shelf core and hoping for the best). I feel that the premium is justified.

Not saying that it's always right to assume that a product from Mountune or Mishi will be great, but their reputations precedes them and I've never heard anyone bash a product they've received from either company.

 

[Hijinx]

Hating to sound like a noob. But in this instance I really wish some of the more knowledgable members would give this a look. Everyone who is already big turbo and super upgraded doesn't necessarily pipe up in these lower build item threads anymore with their thoughts on build, size, etc. Here's to hoping some of them take the time to drop a few thoughts, without being full on noob and tagging.


EDIT: Alright, I'll be the noob and get flamed. Please come and offer some insight on this intercooler. My concerns are: 1. It's small in comparison to most (if not all) other aftermarket. 2. It's Tube and Fin (I am well versed on the differences and read ALL archives on here) however it maintains a really high price point. 3. It is specifically built for "lower range" horsepower ~300. (I never plan to exceed stage 3). 4. They tested with a B&P but released a dataless T&F. 5. NO ONE is discussing this cooler. (This urks me the most really, is it being ignored because not a great option)

I hope some of you will offer your 2 cents.

What the hell, I'll give a random opinion. I'll try to highlight some good things and some negative things because I'm not really for/against anything. I don't usually post about things without seeing third-party data, but it's Saturday and I really don't have anything better to do.

This is kind of difficult to voice an opinion on because what was developed in testing is not the same as the product that's being sold. That, in and of itself, seems really weird to me. I think I would have been more ok with it had there been a follow-up test with the actual unit to substantiate the previous data utilizing different cores.

T/F is generally not as robust as B/P, and that has been shown with the one single currently-available T/F option not performing very well in temperature reduction. That doesn't necessarily mean that this particular T/F option will do as bad, but it kind of plays into my previous thought. I would imagine that if people have issues with the CAT reduction or with damage from normal road-debris that they would speak-up, but there is very limited data on the other T/F so it really comes down with how honest/critical the initial end-users are once they put some mileage on them.

That's enough bad, here are some good-

I like the fact that the OEM turbo is the intended power level. A lot of FiST owners seem to be of the mentality that CAT is the only consideration for an FMIC, and that couldn't be any farther from the truth. Sacrificing a few degrees of CAT for minimal pressure loss is going to be light-years better than having a core that has 5 psi pressure loss but CAT stays at ambient. Think about how much turbo life you're saving if you're running 22.5 psi at the turbo outlet to get 22 psi at the intake manifold versus running 25-27 psi at the outlet to get the same 22 psi IM pressure. Pressure drop is a much bigger deal than its actually given credit for.

Finally, Mishimoto has built basically their entire business around managing and transferring heat. That should speak volumes towards their cumulative knowledge/expertise and I think that this is one of the few instances in this community where I would expect end-user results to mirror what has been posted.

I agree with dyn085. I have no use for 90% of parts on the forums, but I do like to stay involved with upcoming products (whether I'm lurking or disputing). Typically, I only start asking questions if I think something is off-key. Like dyn085 said, heat management is not just in Mishimotos blood, it's in their spinal fluid. It's the cornerstone of their business. And I'm sure that's why they chose T/F over B/P in a direct fit application. T/F can work/flow really well depending on the header design, and I'm sure Mishimoto has it figured out.

 

[J2FoRS]

Thanks [MENTION=759]Hijinx[/MENTION],
Appreciate you stopping in to offer your thoughts. I am really seriously considering this cooler. There are a few...hm not big company coolers out now for much cheaper. But like I said I'm staying stock turbo, it's just my daily not for track. Just want to optimize and have a little more efficiency and fun. I know Mishi is the authority on cooling, my only issue now is when comparing to its only other real "same type" competitor, who is equally as reputable for the FiST platform I'd say and at the exact same price point. I guess that's a decision I'll have to make.