On my 3rd transmission... need advice

[milkman42]

Last edit: 11/18/2016... car bought back under lemon law...

I could write a novel about this situation so I'll try to be brief. General symptom is a loud, high-pitched transmission whine that occurs the second you touch the gas. No noise at idle/coasting. All sounds originated at mile 0 on each transmission. I am currently on my 3rd transmission now. Ford currently isn't making these bearings which is why I've gotten new transmissions.

My question: What else other than the transmission itself could cause these problems? The way I see it, I am either a) incredibly unlucky to get 3 bad transmissions with the 'same' problem, or b) there is something else associated with the transmission that is causing the problem. My first attempt at brainstorming a cause makes me think of the clutch -- I know they haven't changed it through these transmission jobs. Could there be something defective on 'that side'? I have only basic knowledge of how these things work which is why I'm turning to the forum to help fix it (something that I thought Ford could do?....). I love the car otherwise, but it's been in the shop more than my driveway and now I'm sort of hoping for a lemon so I can walk away and take it as a lesson learned... just very disappointing to say the least. Any help is appreciated. Details below.


General

• ~3,500 miles
• bought new
• no mods
• good driver, not abused
• no track time

First (original) Trans
Symptoms:

• whining noise in 6th gear

Diagnosis:

• worn output shaft bearing
• worn differential bearing
• excessive metal debrit in fluid

Second Trans
Symptoms:

• whining in 4th and 6th gear at first
• whining noise migrated to all gears with time

Diagnosis:

• differential bearings not smooth and cups scored
• counter shaft into case bearing scored and bearing feels rough

Third Trans
Symptoms:

• whining in all gears
• gear grinding (sounds like they're not meshing correctly) at low rpms in 2nd and 3rd gear, sometimes 4th
• put over 1k miles on it with no improvement

Diagnosis:

• Field service engineer inspected transmission. Apparently was very interested in the fluid. Nothing else reported to me.
• New trans was ordered and the dealership was instructed to tear down the new (remanufactured) trans, clean it, and fill with new OEM fluid. Nothing else was done. (Sept 18)

Fourth Trans
No problems to report yet. Gears clunk less as well. Only have 20 miles on it so far though.


Conclusion
Not sure what we can learn from this. They did the same job 3 times but on the 3rd time they replaced the factory fluid with new OEM fluid and now it works. I think that part is a coincidence, unless the previous transmissions were improperly filled from the beginning. Perhaps this last install they just did something different. Or, perhaps the sound will come back. I noticed from the 'bill' that this last trans is a reman, while the previous 2 were new (at least not reported as reman). Not sure if this has something to do with it. Anyway, time will tell, but for now I'm happy to be back in my FiST -- time to hit the backroads!


Updated Conclusion
Well today, 11/18/2016, the car got returned to Ford under lemon law. The same noise came back for 6th gear at like 18k miles. Took about 3 months to get everything sorted for the buy-back. Ford paid off my loan and gave me all my payments back so I got a small windfall out of the deal. I bought a new FiST too so not all is lost!

 

[Dustys318]

Check the flywheel input shaft bearing, if that thing is jacked it can cause harmonics throughout the transmission and cause "whine" noises. And if this is your third [different] transmission look at changing the flywheel too...

 

[me32]

Im actually surprised on the 3rd tranny they didnt think about all parts related. Clutch flywheel slave/throw out bearing pilot bearing.

 

[boombots]

Mine whines pretty loud in 3rd-6th... I tend to think it is the output shaft... I have not gotten it worked on yet.

 

[JasonHaven]

Im actually surprised on the 3rd tranny they didnt think about all parts related. Clutch flywheel slave/throw out bearing pilot bearing.

I'm somewhat car ignorant and even I'm surprised by this. It's basic logic in solving a problem. If the same thing keeps happening to new parts, check the parts connected to it to see if they are causing the problems with the new parts. It's a head scratcher that it hasn't happened.

 

[rodmoe]

Check the flywheel input shaft bearing, if that thing is jacked it can cause harmonics throughout the transmission and cause "whine" noises. And if this is your third [different] transmission look at changing the flywheel too...

These IB6 trans have NO pilot bearing in the flywheel so the clutch just slides onto the input shaft and its all good ..

 

[TheGreenOne]

I'm whine free thankfully. I'll definitely be keeping an ear out for this though.

 

[me32]

These IB6 trans have NO pilot bearing in the flywheel so the clutch just slides onto the input shaft and its all good ..

Thanks for the info

 

[rodmoe]

Yup I was surprised too when I took it apart and no bearing ..

 

[FordService]

Mine whines pretty loud in 3rd-6th... I tend to think it is the output shaft... I have not gotten it worked on yet.

If you decide to head to your dealer, boombots, I'll be happy to check out some additional assistance.

Meagan

 

[Sourskittle]

Holy cow !! My vote goes to the clutch/pressure plate. These trans are freaking awesome. People complain about a little noise, but its really awesome for its size and what it could deal with. I have zero complaints about the stock trans, its the most expensive part of the car, lol.

 

[jfdana]

Not sure what to say.

I just had a Quaife diff installed which required taking the trans out and completely apart. As in out of the car, opened into two pieces, everything removed, Quaife installed, then gears, etc., & all put back together. It works fine.

With three transmissions I'd really wonder about competence of the people doing the work.

 

[Plainrt]

I'm not sure I even wanna keep mine after warranty gone because of this. Already had one trans done. Ford needs fix this issue already.

 

[boombots]

I wonder how long one can howl for before giving up the ghost. Seems everyone has it fixed at the onset of the noise.

 

[Plainrt]

Mine got to point could hear with stereo almost 1/2 way up and couldn't take anymore.

 

[milkman42]

These IB6 trans have NO pilot bearing in the flywheel so the clutch just slides onto the input shaft and its all good ..

Good info, thanks.

Not sure what to say.

I just had a Quaife diff installed which required taking the trans out and completely apart. As in out of the car, opened into two pieces, everything removed, Quaife installed, then gears, etc., & all put back together. It works fine.

With three transmissions I'd really wonder about competence of the people doing the work.

I wonder the same.... want to work on mine??

I'm not sure I even wanna keep mine after warranty gone because of this. Already had one trans done. Ford needs fix this issue already.

100% agree... I'm at 2,500 miles!! Sad thing is that I bought a new car against my better judgment to have a reliable 1-owner car... jokes on me.

I wonder how long one can howl for before giving up the ghost. Seems everyone has it fixed at the onset of the noise.

I'm getting a little confused now, but think I put ~1.5k miles on the first, ~500 miles on the second, ~500 miles so far on the third.

Mine got to point could hear with stereo almost 1/2 way up and couldn't take anymore.

WOW, mine is noticeable and annoying, but not that loud yet....


---------------------------------------


Any other input? I'm getting my 2nd car all fixed up/inspected before I take the FiST back. Haven't told the dealership there's still a problem yet.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Strange as it can be could it be a wheel bearing ? I have had some howl before could sound like a tranny from the cab.

 

[tjd_tdi]

I would check out your state's lemon law ASAP. In most states, after a certain amount of time in the shop or a certain amount of attempts to fix a new car, you can force the dealership to buy the car back.

Edit to add a few links to PA specific Lemon Law: here and here. Looks like the definition is 3 or more repair attempts or more than 30 days out of service. Sounds like you may already qualify.

Also, full disclosure: IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

 

[Chuckable]

I would check out your state's lemon law ASAP. In most states, after a certain amount of time in the shop or a certain amount of attempts to fix a new car, you can force the dealership to buy the car back.

Edit to add a few links to PA specific Lemon Law: here and here. Looks like the definition is 3 or more repair attempts or more than 30 days out of service. Sounds like you may already qualify.

Also, full disclosure: IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

You should at least explore your lemon law options. I am a lawyer, and used to arbitrate lemon law claims in Florida. I have no idea what the laws are in PA. Too bad to hear about your FiST. Besides persistent rattles, mine's been good so far knock on wood! Most lawyers will give you a free consultation, so it's worth your time to see if you have a viable claim.

 

[milkman42]

Strange as it can be could it be a wheel bearing ? I have had some howl before could sound like a tranny from the cab.

I don't think so. It doesn't make any noise when coasting, only when on the gas. If it was a bad bearing it would make a noise all the time while moving (right?)

I would check out your state's lemon law ASAP. In most states, after a certain amount of time in the shop or a certain amount of attempts to fix a new car, you can force the dealership to buy the car back.

Edit to add a few links to PA specific Lemon Law: here and here. Looks like the definition is 3 or more repair attempts or more than 30 days out of service. Sounds like you may already qualify.

Also, full disclosure: IANAL (I am not a lawyer).

Thanks for the links. I'm at 2 repair attempts and 7+ weeks out of service.....

You should at least explore your lemon law options. I am a lawyer, and used to arbitrate lemon law claims in Florida. I have no idea what the laws are in PA. Too bad to hear about your FiST. Besides persistent rattles, mine's been good so far knock on wood! Most lawyers will give you a free consultation, so it's worth your time to see if you have a viable claim.

Thanks for the advice, I'll look around.