Stock vs. Stage 2 / Compared to Stage 3 + Pro tune.

[Sirsinclair]

Okay, today [MENTION=3270]Jaxx710[/MENTION] and I did some roll races. We did two 20 rolls and one 30 roll. I'm COBB stage 2 with a cat-back and He's fully stock. I was pretty disappointed with Stage 2 when I first got it, but now I'm extremely disappointed with the performance. Each race I would BARELY pull, we're taking not even a car length from 20 to the top of third/bottom of fourth.

What I'm wondering is if Stage 3 is even worth my time/money? I was planing on finishing off Stage 3 and getting it Pro tuned on the 12th of next month. Have any of you guys made the jump from Stage 2 to Stage 3 + Pro tune? Is it worth it? I seems like the stock turbo is a MAJOR bottleneck on this car and no amount of bolt ons/tuning is going to make all that much of a difference, I could be wrong... I get that these are supporting mods, but damn, $2k+ is a lot of money for marginal improvement.

 

[me32]

Driver mod

 

[Sirsinclair]

No.

 

[dyn085]

It depends in where you're measuring your improvements. There isn't necessarily a 'drastic' change at WOT, though there are clear gains to be had. On pump gas you're realistically only looking at around a total of roughly 15% gains from stock to a pro-tuned stage 3 though (iirc). Where the difference mainly lies is in the midrange-where the majority of your driving is done.

Yes, the baby turbo is weak and must be taken into account. In general comparison, my stock FiST was significantly slower in a straight line when compared to my stock FoST. Once stage 3 and pro-tuned I could get in front off the line and stay there. I don't think the difference between stage 2 and 3 would be mind-blowing, but add some E45 and it'll be a bit better.

Or just start saving for your new turbo...

 

[dyn085]

Also pertinent-

 

[Kip2MyLou]

Well this isn't the post I wanted to read right before going to stage 2 with the dhm intercooler... haha.

For me I know this car won't ever be a fast car. But even only running stage 1 I love driving my car to work every day and weaving in and out of traffic.

I have no plans to go big turbo so stage 3 pro or e tune will be my last performance mod. I'll just save up for a new faster car if that's the case.

But I have heard great results from people with ethanol tunes so I would say that should be the next route.

 

[frankiefiesta]

Roll racing that's your problem

 

[Sirsinclair]

It depends in where you're measuring your improvements. There isn't necessarily a 'drastic' change at WOT, though there are clear gains to be had. On pump gas you're realistically only looking at around a total of roughly 15% gains from stock to a pro-tuned stage 3 though (iirc). Where the difference mainly lies is in the midrange-where the majority of your driving is done.

Yes, the baby turbo is weak and must be taken into account. In general comparison, my stock FiST was significantly slower in a straight line when compared to my stock FoST. Once stage 3 and pro-tuned I could get in front off the line and stay there. I don't think the difference between stage 2 and 3 would be mind-blowing, but add some E45 and it'll be a bit better.

Or just start saving for your new turbo...

That makes sense, thanks. At this point I think I'm going to put the money towards a new turbo.

Well this isn't the post I wanted to read right before going to stage 2 with the dhm intercooler... haha.

For me I know this car won't ever be a fast car. But even only running stage 1 I love driving my car to work every day and weaving in and out of traffic.

I have no plans to go big turbo so stage 3 pro or e tune will be my last performance mod. I'll just save up for a new faster car if that's the case.

But I have heard great results from people with ethanol tunes so I would say that should be the next route.

Honestly man, the car feels pretty good at night when things are cool. We ran today when it was about 85-90, intake temps where 120ish/charge temp 110ish. I guess I just figured with COBB's statement of "change temps up to 100 degrees cooler" the heat would have affected his stock car a lot more than mine.
I know that people say the torque readout on the AP isn't accurate, but for comparison sake, I was maxing at 215 today and max out at 250 when it's cool. I can definitely feel a pretty big difference between the two.

 

[Kip2MyLou]

That makes sense, thanks. At this point I think I'm going to put the money towards a new turbo.




Honestly man, the car feels pretty good at night when things are cool. We ran today when it was about 85-90, intake temps where 120ish/charge temp 110ish. I guess I just figured with COBB's statement of "change temps up to 100 degrees cooler" the heat would have affected his stock car a lot more than mine.
I know that people say the torque readout on the AP isn't accurate, but for comparison sake, I was maxing at 215 today and max out at 250 when it's cool. I can definitely feel a pretty big difference between the two.

That sounds good man. I'm just looking for a little improvement every time I do something. I think a protune or e tune would get you some significant gains.

 

[me32]

There is a pretty good seat of the pants feel from stock to stage 1 to stage 2. Dont know about stage 3 since i dont have it to compare. But i think it came to a driver issue or something else. Because i spanked my buddy in his 100% stock base fist which is like 70lb lighter than my fulley loaded fist. I have a atp intercooler with stock box an cobb filter with the open trimed to allow more air and all stock exhaust running cobb stage 2 ots map

 

[Sirsinclair]

There is a pretty good seat of the pants feel from stock to stage 1 to stage 2. Dont know about stage 3 since i dont have it to compare. But i think it came to a driver issue or something else. Because i spanked my buddy in his 100% stock base fist which is like 70lb lighter than my fulley loaded fist. I have a atp intercooler with stock box an cobb filter with the open trimed to allow more air and all stock exhaust running cobb stage 2 ots map

I understand what you're saying. From a dig, driver skill/involvement is HUGE, but when we are right next to each other in 3rd at wot and I'm not walking away(what I though would happen) is the reason for the post. I come from the sti/evo world so I'm use to putting $2k into my car and it doing something VERY noticeable. By no means was I expecting anything close to those cars, but I was hoping for a little more from the Fiesta.

 

[me32]

I understand what you're saying. From a dig, driver skill/involvement is HUGE, but when we are right next to each other in 3rd at wot and I'm not walking away(what I though would happen) is the reason for the post. I come from the sti/evo world so I'm use to putting $2k into my car and it doing something VERY noticeable. By no means was I expecting anything close to those cars, but I was hoping for a little more from the Fiesta.

Driver mod is always important from dig or a roll. It comes down to shifting fast enough to getting every last rpm before the shift. To getting the jump. Theres all kinds of factors that come into play. If your that dissapointed by all means get the better turbo with a professional tune. Thats gonna make a huge night and difference.

 

[Jaxx710]

Let's trade cars next time and try again ??

 

[Azov]

I'm also going to throw out there, that a Protune would probably make a bigger difference.

 

[RobK]

Yes a custom tune makes a much bigger difference than going from stage to stage ots maps. I am getting E-Tuned on E30 right now and the difference is huge, But it's mostly in the lower to midrange. The stock turbo is just too small to feel like it is making big power on the top end.

I am also in Cali and got ProTuned but I decided to try an E-Tune from Adam at MAP and couldn't be happier, the 91 octane map was great and the ethanol tune is amazing!

Rob.

 

[Sirsinclair]

Yes a custom tune makes a much bigger difference than going from stage to stage ots maps. I am getting E-Tuned on E30 right now and the difference is huge, But it's mostly in the lower to midrange. The stock turbo is just too small to feel like it is making big power on the top end.

I am also in Cali and got ProTuned but I decided to try an E-Tune from Adam at MAP and couldn't be happier, the 91 octane map was great and the ethanol tune is amazing!

Rob.

How do the e-tunes work exactly? Are you running some type of ethanol content analyzer system? What else is involved?

 

[RobK]

The e-tunes are pretty simple, you receive a basemap from the tuner for the mods and stage you are currently running, then you do a couple datalogs and send them back to the tuner.

The tuner will then analyze the data and make revisions to the map and send it back to you, you do this until the tune is optimized and you are happy with exactly the way the car feels.

I do not have an analyzer but will do my best to keep track of my mixtures, If I want to go back to 91 octane it's as simple as filling with 91 and switching my map slot.

Rob.

 

[Kip2MyLou]

Yep, definitely getting off my lazy ass and doing some logging for my e tune once my intercooler gets installed.

 

[15performanceblue]

That is really surprising to hear. The OTS maps are not the best. That is why most people get pro tuned. The difference from a pro tune to an OTS map is insane. The Pro tune maps are always the way to go. I am running turbo back exhaust intake and a 93 octane pro tune dialed in 100% from Randy, and I walked my buddys Livernoise tuned focus ST 3 times in a row at the track. I have a video to prove it. I ran a fiesta ST with an intake and cat back I beyond RAN from him, So something is either wrong with the car or the driver in your case, or you just need to jump on a pro tune. It will be a crazy difference.

 

[Kip2MyLou]

That is really surprising to hear. The OTS maps are not the best. That is why most people get pro tuned. The difference from a pro tune to an OTS map is insane. The Pro tune maps are always the way to go. I am running turbo back exhaust intake and a 93 octane pro tune dialed in 100% from Randy, and I walked my buddys Livernoise tuned focus ST 3 times in a row at the track. I have a video to prove it. I ran a fiesta ST with an intake and cat back I beyond RAN from him, So something is either wrong with the car or the driver in your case, or you just need to jump on a pro tune. It will be a crazy difference.

That's good to hear. I'll be sending some logs to randy after my intercooler install. Good to hear there's a significant difference.