Needs more rotation.

[praecurvo]

Hey there,

So, I have the TB Torsion Brace and TB's Front Traction Bar. Although the car's limits are higher, I notice a hair more understeer and basically zero rotation. Perhaps a RSB will liven up the rear end?

Has anyone put an RSB on their FiST with TB's front traction and rear torsion bars yet? Has anyone added a RSB and liked it?

Thanks

 

[me32]

Interesting. Im waiting for others experiences

 

[D1JL]

I used to have all of the TB under car braces.
I even had items that TB no longer makes/sells.
I added the Pierce 6 point brace before TB came out with theirs.
I now have replaced ALL of the TB parts with Pierce under car bracing.
I also have a larger Ford front sway bar and Eibach rear sway bar.
In addition I have increased the camber to negative 2 degrees all around the car.

I am extremely happy with the increased handling performance.



Dave

 

[iso100]

Hey there,

So, I have the TB Torsion Brace and TB's Front Traction Bar. Although the car's limits are higher, I notice a hair more understeer and basically zero rotation. Perhaps a RSB will liven up the rear end?

Has anyone put an RSB on their FiST with TB's front traction and rear torsion bars yet? Has anyone added a RSB and liked it?

Thanks

I have noticed the same thing. I have the Pierce 2 point lower and rear TB torsion bar.

It defies logic but the car has less tendency to oversteer now. I believe ultimate handling grip has increased, however.

 

[praecurvo]

I used to have all of the TB under car braces.
I even had items that TB no longer makes/sells.
I added the Pierce 6 point brace before TB came out with theirs.
I now have replaced ALL of the TB parts with Pierce under car bracing.
I also have a larger Ford front sway bar and Eibach rear sway bar.
In addition I have increased the camber to negative 2 degrees all around the car.

I am extremely happy with the increased handling performance.



Dave

Do you have a picture of the Eibach rear bar? Does it look like Steeda's rear bar?

I have noticed the same thing. I have the Pierce 2 point lower and rear TB torsion bar.

It defies logic but the car has less tendency to oversteer now. I believe ultimate handling grip has increased, however.

It makes sense. I will still try to make it rotate more.

 

[D1JL]

Please use the link below in signature to my Mod List.
The photos are there.
Although the Steeda bar is better than most on the market, it is difficult to install because of the drilling.
The Eibach bar mounts outside of the twist beam, it is very easy to install, and also works better than most.



Dave

 

[praecurvo]

Please use the link below in signature to my Mod List.
The photos are there.
Although the Steeda bar is better than most on the market, it is difficult to install because of the drilling.
The Eibach bar mounts outside of the twist beam, it is very easy to install, and also works better than most.



Dave

Got it, thanks. Seems like the Eibach bar was an easy install?

 

[praecurvo]

I have noticed the same thing. I have the Pierce 2 point lower and rear TB torsion bar.

It defies logic but the car has less tendency to oversteer now. I believe ultimate handling grip has increased, however.

Just received and essay...er email from Danny at TB;-)

After voicing my concern, he mentioned looking into his trunk brace. He says that with the front 2 point, rear torsion, and rear trunk brace, the car has similar rotation characteristics to stock with obviously much higher handling limits. I will likely be picking one up soon and filling the community in on my findings.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Ultimately the end goal for the fastest and safest handling balance on asphalt is having these all working together in a smooth transition.

Low speed oversteer
Mid speed neutral
High speed understeer

Why I spent considerable effort cutting and welding the rear axle flanges to change the fun but ultimately dangerous rear alignment on high speed turns on race tires and a lot more power than stock.

I would of loved a bolt on solution but it was not happening a year ago, now it looks like it will be available soon for you guys!

Not always easy to attain in most vehicles, especially FWD but it is my only goal besides just plain sticking.

Rick

 

[praecurvo]

Ultimately the end goal for the fastest and safest handling balance on asphalt is having these all working together in a smooth transition.

Low speed oversteer
Mid speed neutral
High speed understeer


Rick

Might I ask why you've aimed towards "high speed understeer?" Wouldn't you aim at neutral handling at speed?

 

[RAAMaudio]

Great question

I should of said a very small amount of high speed understeer, it is far safer than over steer and when setup for neutral handling at high speeds if the chassis gets upset it can lead to oversteer far more easily, a bit of a safety net is a good thing. Pushing to the outside of the track is always better than coming across the track into traffic, spinning and getting T-boned, etc...

There is a bit more to it but I would have to dig up my chassis setup books to find it and we are packing to move.

 

[xvxax]

I don't think bracing will net you better understeer/oversteer characteristics.

If you are missing points due to understeer, swapping rear springs or sway would help.

If the front tires are rolling, then a front sway, camber, front springs, or some combination would help increase absolute grip. You can check this using a tire temp gauge.

If you've completely maximized the potential of springs, sways, and shock tuning, move on to bracing.

 

[praecurvo]

I don't think bracing will net you better understeer/oversteer characteristics.

If you are missing points due to understeer, swapping rear springs or sway would help.

If the front tires are rolling, then a front sway, camber, front springs, or some combination would help increase absolute grip. You can check this using a tire temp gauge.

If you've completely maximized the potential of springs, sways, and shock tuning, move on to bracing.

Awesome. Thank you for your feedback. From the sounds of it, you seem to be quite experienced in suspension tuning.

For me, I am an experienced novice at suspension tuning. So far, I've been lucky in the tuning solutions I've chosen for all my (and a couple buddy's) cars. There are certainly many facets of tuning and for better or worse, we will all take a certain path which we believe is good for us.

Thus far, with the front 2-point and rear torsion beam, the car feels on another level compared to stock. If you lived just a couple thousand miles more west, I'd love to take you for a ride just to experience it for yourself. Also, Danny @TB Performance has suggested I try the trunk brace to achieve the results I'm looking for. His products in my eyes have been great thus far as has his service, so I'll take his word and give it a shot.

For me, I'm seeking to maintain current dampening/spring rates/ride height in this car. If I can even come closer to where I'd like the idea chassis setup to be by just toying with the chassis bracing, then mother***ng bravo;-)

 

[praecurvo]

Great question

I should of said a very small amount of high speed understeer, it is far safer than over steer and when setup for neutral handling at high speeds if the chassis gets upset it can lead to oversteer far more easily, a bit of a safety net is a good thing. Pushing to the outside of the track is always better than coming across the track into traffic, spinning and getting T-boned, etc...

There is a bit more to it but I would have to dig up my chassis setup books to find it and we are packing to move.

That makes sense. I guess I haven't been fast enough in a FWD car where I couldn't pull it out with some throttle. I like the way you think good sir

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have set up FWD, RWD and AWD for this the best I could get them to cooperate.

I have much tuning to do on this car but just the one track weekend showed it was pretty well sorted and I have not done anything with sway bars yet other than stiffer front bushings and adjustable end links and a DIY 2 point front brace/rear under tray mount.

I did change my rear camber to -1.9 and toe to 0.0 so my findings will not concur with most of the FiST's being modded.