cobb stage 3 vs stock focus st?

[teflondon]

How close is the fiesta with a cobb stage 3 vs a stock focus st in terms of acceleration and speed?

 

[dyn085]

In that scenario, the FiST basically accelerates at the same speed as the stock FoST, maybe just a touch faster. Basically, you won't blow the doors off of one but if you get ahead they will not be able to catch up and pass.

 

[cctman]

In that scenario, the FiST basically accelerates at the same speed as the stock FoST, maybe just a touch faster. Basically, you won't blow the doors off of one but if you get ahead they will not be able to catch up and pass.

If by acceleration you mean 0-60 or 1/4 mile, we have to use 3 gears where as the FOST does not. But if you mean out of corners and on a track or back roads they are about even stock for stock. A stage 3 fist will destroy a stock FOST in that environment. The advantage really goes to the fist because of power to weight ratio.

 

[dyn085]

If by acceleration you mean 0-60 or 1/4 mile, we have to use 3 gears where as the FOST does not. But if you mean out of corners and on a track or back roads they are about even stock for stock. A stage 3 fist will destroy a stock FOST in that environment. The advantage really goes to the fist because of power to weight ratio.

I mean acceleration as in third-gear vs. third-gear.

For the most part I'm going to disagree-but only because I own both models and have experienced them back-to-back, repeatedly, in the same conditions and on the same roads. Nobody in this community wants to hear that, but it's true. My gf and I lined them up more times than I can admit, and the results were always the FoST stock vs stock and mod-for-mod. When the FiST was Stage 3 and pro-tuned while the FoST was stock, the FiST could get in front and stay there, but definitely not pull away by any large amount at all. It would win in a drag-race, but a poor launch could be the result in a loss because that's where the FiST handily outshines the FoST.

The part that I agree with you in your statement is the stage 3 FiST vs stock FoST on a road course, and the sole reason for that would be the upgraded FMIC making the FiST significantly more consistent. On the flip-side, a stock FoST with an upgraded FMIC would most likely make a lot of time on the FiST simply because the heat is now better managed and it has more grip from the factory. Over a road course, having higher corner speeds adds up really, really fast.

I thoroughly enjoy my FiST so try and understand that this has nothing to do with FiST-hating, it's simply being realistic.

 

[ModBargains]

From what I've heard back with customers, the Stage 3 COBB will keep up with it, but on the track as everybody else is eluding to, because of the power to weight, there's usually an advantage in the corners.

Make sure that once you go COBB though, check out our thread about COBB pricing, that way you can maximize your dollar per horsepower! - http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/...on-COBB-Items!-Lowest-prices-for-COBB-goodies!

 

[cctman]

I mean acceleration as in third-gear vs. third-gear.

For the most part I'm going to disagree-but only because I own both models and have experienced them back-to-back, repeatedly, in the same conditions and on the same roads. Nobody in this community wants to hear that, but it's true. My gf and I lined them up more times than I can admit, and the results were always the FoST stock vs stock and mod-for-mod. When the FiST was Stage 3 and pro-tuned while the FoST was stock, the FiST could get in front and stay there, but definitely not pull away by any large amount at all. It would win in a drag-race, but a poor launch could be the result in a loss because that's where the FiST handily outshines the FoST.

The part that I agree with you in your statement is the stage 3 FiST vs stock FoST on a road course, and the sole reason for that would be the upgraded FMIC making the FiST significantly more consistent. On the flip-side, a stock FoST with an upgraded FMIC would most likely make a lot of time on the FiST simply because the heat is now better managed and it has more grip from the factory. Over a road course, having higher corner speeds adds up really, really fast.

I thoroughly enjoy my FiST so try and understand that this has nothing to do with FiST-hating, it's simply being realistic.

Yeah... I think we are basically agreeing on the same thing, but to be clear. The stock FIST will take a stock FOST in tighter courses and roads. There are tracks where the FIST has pulled better times, and when you compare them they are the tighter more technical tracks.

I would use for further evidence the fact that if you compare the FIST against the FOST in 2WD rally. They don't even really race the FOST. The FIST also excels there as well. Compare the Team O'Neil 2WD FIST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZhs_HTAACE and also see the wiki page on 2015 World Rally Championship-2 season http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_World_Rally_Championship-2_season#Teams_and_drivers . The FIST is really a superior car not in all situations, but when it comes down to series racing and even 2WD with just bolt ons on the stock engine as Team O'Neil has done. The FIST has even taken 2WD rally podium finishes this year as well.

I'm not trying to bad mouth the FOST to much, but in all seriousness it just does not really have a real presence in racing right now. Not that I have seen. Now what they decide to do with the RS is anyone's game. Heck until 2 weeks ago, I didn't even know they had a 2WD national rally circuit dominated by FISTS. The FIST as I see it is just more hard core and race savvy.

 

[dyn085]

No, we're not agreeing. The FiST is superior in braking and fun-factor, but that's mostly it if we're discussing bolt-ons, mod-for-mod. There's plenty of data out there to back that up.

WRC is a poor example to use for comparison because those vehicles are representations in shell only. Unless your Fiesta had a rollcage. And awd. And no interior. And so on...

The Team O'Neil reference doesn't work either because the class is limited to 1.6l. In super-production the FoST would be going up against awd models, and that would be a waste of time.

I have no cognitive dissonance over my vehicle choices. I deal with this discussion more often than I would care to admit and no matter what it's always with someone that's trying to convince me that they bought the 'better' model-and that's both the FiST and the FoST owners. Each car has its positive and negative attributes and each does well for its intended audience, but stories of better performance from the FiST owners are rarely ever backed up-and when they are it's generally not in a repeatable manner.

 

[BooSTedsloth]

a stage 2 fiesta ST could probs beat a FoST in a 3rd gear pull. My FIST has an Cobb AP, injen CAI, 3in MBRP, RMM, BOV, wheels/springs and other shit and I pull, sometimes win against some stage 1 FoST'S, wrx's and brz's - which are slow as balls anyway. But the ST's arnt made for going straight.

 

[cctman]

No, we're not agreeing. The FiST is superior in braking and fun-factor, but that's mostly it if we're discussing bolt-ons, mod-for-mod. There's plenty of data out there to back that up.

WRC is a poor example to use for comparison because those vehicles are representations in shell only. Unless your Fiesta had a rollcage. And awd. And no interior. And so on...

The Team O'Neil reference doesn't work either because the class is limited to 1.6l. In super-production the FoST would be going up against awd models, and that would be a waste of time.

I have no cognitive dissonance over my vehicle choices. I deal with this discussion more often than I would care to admit and no matter what it's always with someone that's trying to convince me that they bought the 'better' model-and that's both the FiST and the FoST owners. Each car has its positive and negative attributes and each does well for its intended audience, but stories of better performance from the FiST owners are rarely ever backed up-and when they are it's generally not in a repeatable manner.

Well, I leave you with this... and I guess I'm unconvinced that a FOST is superior to a FIST in anyway in the rally racing circuit. I don't buy that it is just because the rally series has the 1.6L restrictions. I pulled the wiki on the series and the older rally FOST was replaced by the FIST back a few years ago. Show me where the stats on the same road courses are quicker with the FOST than the FIST's inaugural year and then I would say you have an argument. But the word FOST with the word rally or even racing for that matter are completely absent accept for the archives of history.

I just find it hard for me to take the FOST serious as far as racing goes. It may be a street warrior, but move to the canyons and back roads and it just doesn't give the all around handling and performance package the FIST gives in its current form.

 

[dyn085]

Well, I leave you with this... and I guess I'm unconvinced that a FOST is superior to a FIST in anyway in the rally racing circuit. I don't buy that it is just because the rally series has the 1.6L restrictions. I pulled the wiki on the series and the older rally FOST was replaced by the FIST back a few years ago. Show me where the stats on the same road courses are quicker with the FOST than the FIST's inaugural year and then I would say you have an argument. But the word FOST with the word rally or even racing for that matter are completely absent accept for the archives of history.

I just find it hard for me to take the FOST serious as far as racing goes. It may be a street warrior, but move to the canyons and back roads and it just doesn't give the all around handling and performance package the FIST gives in its current form.

It's kind of tough to prove it's better in a 1.6l serious with a 2.0l engine. Argue it all you want, but you can make a fully-bolted FoST faster (in some situations) than a non-modded Mustang, but that doesn't change the fact that mod-for-mod the Mustang will be faster and using a FoST-restricted series as proof of its 'superiority' doesn't make any sense.

If you want to believe that your FiST is better/faster/superior then by all means-go ahead. All I'm saying is that for normal driving and having fun I take the FiST but when I want to go fast in any sort of driving scenario I take the FoST.

 

[cctman]

It's kind of tough to prove it's better in a 1.6l serious with a 2.0l engine. Argue it all you want, but you can make a fully-bolted FoST faster (in some situations) than a non-modded Mustang, but that doesn't change the fact that mod-for-mod the Mustang will be faster and using a FoST-restricted series as proof of its 'superiority' doesn't make any sense.

If you want to believe that your FiST is better/faster/superior then by all means-go ahead. All I'm saying is that for normal driving and having fun I take the FiST but when I want to go fast in any sort of driving scenario I take the FoST.

And I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake of arguing, I'm just genuinely intrigued as to why the majority of others don't hold to your opinion.

If I had the money... I would pick a different daily commuter and put my FIST in 2WD rally events.

 

[dyn085]

And I'm not trying to argue with you for the sake of arguing, I'm just genuinely intrigued as to why the majority of others don't hold to your opinion.

If I had the money... I would pick a different daily commuter and put my FIST in 2WD rally events.

It's not an argument; it's a discussion. People can have existing viewpoints and co-exist, it's part of what makes us individuals. If one model was clearly the 'best' then there wouldn't be any sales of the other.

Sales data would also be an example of what the overall society/community dictates is 'best' as an overall number, but only in a very generalized manner.

I guess it depends on what you're considering 'the majority of others'. If you're trying to use members of this community/forum as your example, then there's a clear bias. If not, then I don't know whom you're referring to.

Like I said, I have this conversation more than I care to because someone with one model is always trying to convince me that it's 'better'. The one thing I've realized is that they aren't ever trying to convince me, they're trying to convince themselves.

 

[cctman]

It's not an argument; it's a discussion. People can have existing viewpoints and co-exist, it's part of what makes us individuals. If one model was clearly the 'best' then there wouldn't be any sales of the other.

Sales data would also be an example of what the overall society/community dictates is 'best' as an overall number, but only in a very generalized manner.

I guess it depends on what you're considering 'the majority of others'. If you're trying to use members of this community/forum as your example, then there's a clear bias. If not, then I don't know whom you're referring to.

Like I said, I have this conversation more than I care to because someone with one model is always trying to convince me that it's 'better'. The one thing I've realized is that they aren't ever trying to convince me, they're trying to convince themselves.

I agree with you on that. Thanks for the conversation and have a great weekend.

 

[praecurvo]

Coming from an owner of both however, stock for stock, the FiST will take care of a FoST on the racetrack. It comes down simply to BRAKES. The FoST's stock brakes simply can't keep up with its mass.

In canyon carving without too much decline, the FoST does have the lateral grip, the power, and the rotational capability to pull a FiST (driver removed). On the other hand, I still love driving the FiST over the FoST.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have been a passenger in a slightly modded FoST, cooling and I believe some brake work were the main things done to the Octane cars where the FiST was stock. A very fast Vette racer I know that owns a NASA championship car, instructor at the track, he was flying in the FoST, far faster than I imagined it could be, I was quite impressed.

After driving both cars during the days events I found I liked both a great deal but the FiST put more of a smile on my face every time, I picked it for the hot lap session and had a blast in it and was complemented on my speed. I picked it because it was more fun and I was bringing out my highly modded FiST soon for a two day event and wanted a bit of track time in a similar car.

Nearly all if not all the instructors said they liked the FiST better, just more fun to drive, I did not even ask about lap times. The head of the Ford race shop that takes care of dozens of cars loves the FiST, likes it better than the FoST as well.

FoST has better rear suspension, wider track and lower center of gravity and more power.

FiST has a livelier chassis, higher CG and less weight. (I removed some of the liveliness of the chassis for safer/faster lap times in my highly modded car)

Both are really fun cars to drive at speed, FoST would make a better family car, FiST more engaging, not a huge difference in performance so one can be modded to be faster than the other fairly easily or left stock depending on what one likes.

I think we are just damn lucky to have two such great cars to pick from

Rick

I prefer the lighter car, always have, then mod to my taste which we all should do.

Which one is ultimately better is your choice, they are just different, buy one and roll your own mod list into it, or not, have fun

 

[pelotonracer2]

I came from a lightly modified 2011 Mazdaspeed 3 (Genpoo) and straight into the FiST. When I saw the FiST for the first time and got to oogle the specs, I knew I had to have one. There was no hesitation with this decision. It has been a win/win for me. I LOVE small-ish, light, nimble "drivers" cars (check). I wanted a smaller car payment (check). I wanted to save 15% or more on my car insurance =laughs= (check). I wanted better gas mileage (check). If I could afford a Lotis Elise these days, that would be my dream car. heh. Before the MS3 I owned an SVT Focus (which I absolutely loved, except the fact it was hard to make any additional power). Performance of the MS3 and FoST are nearly identical (and that is not by coincidence). The chasis is nearly identical as are the demensions, engine size is (almost) the same as is power output (and delivery). Stock for stock, the MS3 or FoST will beat the FiST straight line acceleration. However, throw the FiST on the track and the FiST will have a slight advantage, especially in S turns, chicanes and tight, technical road courses. If there are a bunch of high speed straight aways, the FoST can hunt down the FiST on the straights. I've seen PLENTY of video showing this but also at the track with my own eyes too. The FiST is lighter, has better balance/agility and can be flung around with impunity. The FoST is harder to get around a track "fast". Much of it comes down to the driver. For instance, watch this video of a modified FoST and a stock FiST exchanging blows on a road course. It is a fairly wide open course so technically speaking the two cars are about even albeit they exhibit different strengths and weaknesses. This will illustrate the FoSTs better speed in the straights, but also the fact that the FiST can put a few car lengths on the FoST in the twisty sections of the course and also pull away coming out of turns (low weight and small turbo = excellent response and low end). Neither drivers are professionals, but you can tell that both have some track experience. Keep in mind, the FoST is not stock but the FiST is. It gets good when the FiST is in front of the FoST and they have dispatched the other "fodder". lol. Enjoy.

[video=youtube;5HOjh6T7cMk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HOjh6T7cMk[/video]

 

[frankiefiesta]

mod for mod the focus will always be faster than the fiesta. bigger engine (check). bigger turbo (im assuming)

you can make a fiesta faster than a focus st though. you can make any car faster than another car. all it takes is money.

 

[15performanceblue]

A stage 3 fiesta ST will beat a focus. I am basically Stage 3, minus the intercooler on my 93 pro tune from Randy I ran my buddies Stage 1 focus ST at the track, his reaction time was .450 better than mine, and I still beat him down the track by 3-4 cars I have a video of it. We ran again, I got a much worse launch my reaction time was .856 or something, and my 60 foot was 2.4 or 2.5, his reaction time was .345 and 60 foot was 2.1, I beat him down the tract again. by the end of the quarter mile we were almost dead even, but my time slip was .400 faster than his. He has the liver noise tune and an CAI. now on my E30 tune, I walked him even worse. I will gladly post the video of the runs if anyone needs the proof.

 

[cctman]

mod for mod the focus will always be faster than the fiesta. bigger engine (check). bigger turbo (im assuming)

you can make a fiesta faster than a focus st though. you can make any car faster than another car. all it takes is money.

I beg to differ... The fiesta ST is 500 lbs lighter, better steering geometry, better balanced and more agile. This is why the FIST absolutely rocks in the tight stuff, canyon back roads and in the rally circuit. The FOST might be better in a long straight line or on a very wide open track with minimal turns, but the FIST will eat it for breakfast in the corners. The FOST is just to overweight and can't contain its power or oversteer in the corners. In other words a 300lb torque FIST will always out gun a 300lb torque FOST. If you start getting beyond 300-350lbs FOST range you have a wheel spinning mess of a car.

Spinning tires get you no where...

 

[cctman]

A stage 3 fiesta ST will beat a focus. I am basically Stage 3, minus the intercooler on my 93 pro tune from Randy I ran my buddies Stage 1 focus ST at the track, his reaction time was .450 better than mine, and I still beat him down the track by 3-4 cars I have a video of it. We ran again, I got a much worse launch my reaction time was .856 or something, and my 60 foot was 2.4 or 2.5, his reaction time was .345 and 60 foot was 2.1, I beat him down the tract again. by the end of the quarter mile we were almost dead even, but my time slip was .400 faster than his. He has the liver noise tune and an CAI. now on my E30 tune, I walked him even worse. I will gladly post the video of the runs if anyone needs the proof.

I run mine full time on a E40 tune and is the best mod I ever did. It basically bumped my car up 30 lbs of torque instantly with the tune.

http://www.datazap.me/u/cctman/razorlabs-e40-tune-3-4th-gear-pull?log=0&data=5-8-9