False Knock or nah?

[airjor13]

2 Gal of this stuff equals.....

I can say for almost certain it was some bad gas...all is well now!

 

[dyn085]

I'm glad you were able to find a simple resolution. I think that a lot of times I automatically assume that people are aware of fuel-testing/quality and know whether they have good fuel or not, but I've seen quite a few posts lately of people that are searching for problem-resolution and have been unaware of their fuel quality either to begin with or during troubleshooting. It ties into my fuel rant, so I'll try and cobble up something and edit it into some previous threads.

 

[airjor13]

I'm glad you were able to find a simple resolution. I think that a lot of times I automatically assume that people are aware of fuel-testing/quality and know whether they have good fuel or not, but I've seen quite a few posts lately of people that are searching for problem-resolution and have been unaware of their fuel quality either to begin with or during troubleshooting. It ties into my fuel rant, so I'll try and cobble up something and edit it into some previous threads.

Yea thanks, I am happy it was relatively simple, but this thread and your process of singling out factors to consider really helped!

I think my pro-tune was really aggressive, but that previous batch of gas I pumped was really crap, it was pulling timing on the OTS map too!

 

[airjor13]

Really good this morning

 

[dyn085]

Really good this morning

Yep, that's significantly better than multiple negatives. I would take a few tanks to compare nearby stations and their fuels effects on your timing to determine what's the best available to you without using E85, unless you plan on having an E-mix tune in the end. Obviously run the tank out as much as reasonably possible, and then hold off on taking logs for a couple of days and some mileage to allow whatever's left from the previous tank to fully dilute/mix into the new tank.

 

[crankin]

Well I can definately report that the reverb from my ATP DP does cause some negative correction that was not otherwise present running the oem DP. There is absolutely nothing touching as I went over the install with new bolts and gaskets tonight.

I was thinking of taking it in to the exhaust shop and utilizing the oem bracket in some way and attach to the ATP. I also noted the rubber hanger nearest the flex pipe on the DP essentially is not doing anything. It is loose with no tension on it, so that will need some adjustment or even just a shorter rubber.

Something else I was thinking about is the oem brass gasket from DP to CBE. I wonder if the 2.5 DP to 2.??? OEM CBE is causing some strange vibration as the openings do not much all that well.

Anyone got any other ideas?.???

 

[dyn085]

Well I can definately report that the reverb from my ATP DP does cause some negative correction that was not otherwise present running the oem DP. There is absolutely nothing touching as I went over the install with new bolts and gaskets tonight.

I was thinking of taking it in to the exhaust shop and utilizing the oem bracket in some way and attach to the ATP. I also noted the rubber hanger nearest the flex pipe on the DP essentially is not doing anything. It is loose with no tension on it, so that will need some adjustment or even just a shorter rubber.

Something else I was thinking about is the oem brass gasket from DP to CBE. I wonder if the 2.5 DP to 2.??? OEM CBE is causing some strange vibration as the openings do not much all that well.

Anyone got any other ideas?.???

Pm'ed.

 

[Hijinx]

Airjor13 - I live in Chantilly/South Riding and I have had similar issues with Sunoco. I stay away from them now. I only use the TopTier gas brands (which Sunoco is not part of) and have had no issues since.

I don't know how far away it is from your location, as I was visiting, but I was in Hot Springs, VA the other weekend, and I had no problems with Sunoco. Like dyn085 said, it doesn't necessarily depend on whether it's a Top Tier Fuel or not, but the quality at that particular station. Furthermore, Top Tier Fuels only look at the detergent levels in a fuel; has nothing to do with the octane levels.

 

[crankin]

Pm'ed.

I switched up the fuel tonight and have seen the OAR climb a couple points so far. Gonna visit the exhaust shop this week to try and sort out the vibes I am getting from the DP.

What are all the possible reads for knock in the AP3? I want to do some before and after.

 

[dyn085]

I switched up the fuel tonight and have seen the OAR climb a couple points so far. Gonna visit the exhaust shop this week to try and sort out the vibes I am getting from the DP.

What are all the possible reads for knock in the AP3? I want to do some before and after.

Most people only monitor ignition correction, though some add knock count as well. You can go to https://cobb.app.box.com/ford-monitor-list for a brief description of all of the available monitors.

 

[XuperXero]

Most people only monitor ignition correction, though some add knock count as well. You can go to www.cobb.app.box.com/ford-monitor-list for a brief description of all of the available monitors.

Link doesn't work.

Great thread btw.

 

[dyn085]

I edited the link, it should work now.

 

[tawheed]

I found a sweet deal on a new Cobb RMM locally, I've only had the car for a couple of weeks but was thinking of pulling the trigger until I started googling and stumbled upon all this false knock stuff. Should I pass on the RMM? Thanks!

 

[dyn085]

I found a sweet deal on a new Cobb RMM locally, I've only had the car for a couple of weeks but was thinking of pulling the trigger until I started googling and stumbled upon all this false knock stuff. Should I pass on the RMM? Thanks!

I wouldn't be concerned; the first two datalogs posted are my FiST with the Cobb RMM installed. I had heard a lot of false-knock rumor prior to creating this thread, which is why I created it to begin with-so people would have an idea of what they're looking at in their logs in order to be able to tell. Pretty much everyone that has shared their datalogs with me has either had a problem with fuel or with their datalogging procedure.

 

[crankin]

Well I can definately report that the reverb from my ATP DP does cause some negative correction that was not otherwise present running the oem DP. There is absolutely nothing touching as I went over the install with new bolts and gaskets tonight.

I was thinking of taking it in to the exhaust shop and utilizing the oem bracket in some way and attach to the ATP. I also noted the rubber hanger nearest the flex pipe on the DP essentially is not doing anything. It is loose with no tension on it, so that will need some adjustment or even just a shorter rubber.

Something else I was thinking about is the oem brass gasket from DP to CBE. I wonder if the 2.5 DP to 2.??? OEM CBE is causing some strange vibration as the openings do not much all that well.

Anyone got any other ideas?.???

I am keeping my fingers crossed, but I think I found my knock/ping issue. I have been +6 over the last few days since my visit to the exhaust shop.

What I found is that the OEM CBE straight piped with OEM DP on OEM hangers worked very well and that was how my tune was done with Randy. Add the ATP DP into the equation with the very raw sound that is makes, combined with the fact that the flex pipe on the ATP is rather stiff compared to the floppy oem style. Well sir, you just created a giant tuning fork. Literally the entire is exhaust was ringing from front to back. It was confirmed it was not touching anywhere and decided the easiest fix was to stiffen up the exhaust hangers with some leftovers from the shop. Bang!!! The exhaust note even sounds awesome now.

The conclusion from the shop was that the oem gear that normally still would be attached or even any aftermarket muffler would quell any vibes being sent through the system. So essentially it was not ATP DP in itself causing the vibes but the shitty oem hangers that some have previously been reporting to cause rattles.

My only problem now is the I don't want to reinstall my Boomba RRM because I forgot how smooth the car was before I installed it. Shes purring like a kitten.

 

[iso100]

Crankin, have you run another set of datalogs to validate this hypothesis? I'm curious.

All of my corrections come between 4400 and 5700 RPM. I have ATR now and was planning to adjust the high-load 2D timing table for those RPM spots to detune the advance slightly.

My MBRP exhaust came with new hangers and I believe my CP-E downpipe has all the stock bracing so I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is just excessive timing advance (15 degrees versus the Cobb OTS 12 at redline) or if there's a false knock issue as well.

 

[dyn085]

I am keeping my fingers crossed, but I think I found my knock/ping issue. I have been +6 over the last few days since my visit to the exhaust shop.

What I found is that the OEM CBE straight piped with OEM DP on OEM hangers worked very well and that was how my tune was done with Randy. Add the ATP DP into the equation with the very raw sound that is makes, combined with the fact that the flex pipe on the ATP is rather stiff compared to the floppy oem style. Well sir, you just created a giant tuning fork. Literally the entire is exhaust was ringing from front to back. It was confirmed it was not touching anywhere and decided the easiest fix was to stiffen up the exhaust hangers with some leftovers from the shop. Bang!!! The exhaust note even sounds awesome now.

The conclusion from the shop was that the oem gear that normally still would be attached or even any aftermarket muffler would quell any vibes being sent through the system. So essentially it was not ATP DP in itself causing the vibes but the shitty oem hangers that some have previously been reporting to cause rattles.

My only problem now is the I don't want to reinstall my Boomba RRM because I forgot how smooth the car was before I installed it. Shes purring like a kitten.

I'm glad you're finally getting sorted; I know the frustration that comes along with getting resolution sometimes.

Crankin, have you run another set of datalogs to validate this hypothesis? I'm curious.

All of my corrections come between 4400 and 5700 RPM. I have ATR now and was planning to adjust the high-load 2D timing table for those RPM spots to detune the advance slightly.

My MBRP exhaust came with new hangers and I believe my CP-E downpipe has all the stock bracing so I'm not sure if what I'm seeing is just excessive timing advance (15 degrees versus the Cobb OTS 12 at redline) or if there's a false knock issue as well.

You only get 12 degrees advance on the OTS maps? I see 14+ from 5300 rpm on iirc.

 

[iso100]

You only get 12 degrees advance on the OTS maps? I see 14+ from 5300 rpm on iirc.

This was just looking at the logged Cyl 1 Timing, not looking at tables in ATR.

 

[dyn085]

This was just looking at the logged Cyl 1 Timing, not looking at tables in ATR.

Right, that's what I was assuming. What octane fuel are you using?

Here's a stage 3 log on 93 octane-
http://datazap.me/u/dyn085/cobb-stage-3?log=0&data=9-12-16&mark=51&trim=1&tmin=100.00&tmax=100.00

A comparison using the 93 OTS tune with 87 octane fuel-
http://datazap.me/u/dyn085/87-testing-2?log=2&data=9-11-15&mark=42&trim=1&tmin=100.00&tmax=100.00

 

[iso100]

Right, that's what I was assuming. What octane fuel are you using?

Here's a stage 3 log on 93 octane-
http://datazap.me/u/dyn085/cobb-stage-3?log=0&data=9-12-16&mark=51&trim=1&tmin=100.00&tmax=100.00

A comparison using the 93 OTS tune with 87 octane fuel-
http://datazap.me/u/dyn085/87-testing-2?log=2&data=9-11-15&mark=42&trim=1&tmin=100.00&tmax=100.00

Just ran a log of my custom map based on Cobb 93 OTS Stage 3 and it shows 15.4 at the top of the log. My older logs must have been very different. It's been a while since I've run an OTS map.