Running FiST with E85 Blends - Discussion Thread

[DHM1]

I'm sure it's like all the other parts that I've looked at between the two and ultimately found to be different.

The FoST is just using a 5th port, as described above. Fully plug and play, reversible, and upgradeable should the time arrive. But that's a substantially larger market with many more people that have cash burning holes in their pockets. I don't think a day goes by that I don't see someone new going BT.

The fist hpfp outputs .75cc per rev and the fost is .90cc

Fuel pump internals are pretty much the big difference is cam lobe design. Fost is a timing chain system that can take a little more load than out belt system. The 2.3 ecoboost is 1.12cc but runs a 4lobe set up unlike the fist and fost 3 lobe setup.

Russ

 

[rodmoe]

Couple things you guys have to take in to account when talking about di fuels systems. Di hpfps are ran off the cam lobe. This makes them rpm dependent. As rpm goes up fuel flow goes up. So on 93oct the fuel system can support 300whp to 330whp best case. But that is only at about 6k rpm and above. So you say ok we'll make more power by revving it high... No now as rpm rises the injection window gets smaller and smaller which means you either need bigger injectors or more pressure to get enough fuel in the smaller window. Di fuel systems are very dynamic and have more variables than what our industry is use to. A aux fuel system ("5th" injector, secondary injectors) is a great option to fix this issue. This fix only has real limitations in injector size, intake fuel pump, and cylinder to cylinder distribution.

Get a turbo set up that makes a nice and long flat tq curve on 93 Oct. or get a secondary fuel system I believe that these will be the two best options for our cars when it comes to making fun reliable power.

Russ

Your R&D parts should be packed and ready to ship soon.. get that other issue fixed or something and we will push ahead

 

[JPGC]

I'm sure it's like all the other parts that I've looked at between the two and ultimately found to be different.

The FoST is just using a 5th port, as described above. Fully plug and play, reversible, and upgradeable should the time arrive. But that's a substantially larger market with many more people that have cash burning holes in their pockets. I don't think a day goes by that I don't see someone new going BT.

Yeah, I know Stratified Auto has that Aux Fuel/ 5th injector setup for the FoST...that SOB is expensive...@ $900, not including the tuning. Of course, for the ones staying stock turbo, stock engine and no nitrous, etc and not planning on making the kind of power to need the extra fueling...it isn't necessary.

 

[dyn085]

Yeah, I know Stratified Auto has that Aux Fuel/ 5th injector setup for the FoST...that SOB is expensive...@ $900, not including the tuning. Of course, for the ones staying stock turbo, stock engine and no nitrous, etc and not planning on making the kind of power to need the extra fueling...it isn't necessary.

It's definitely not cheap, but if you're at that level of need then you've already most likely spent significantly more. Considering the level of integration, I would definitely consider it worth the cost. That's the main reason I find it difficult to be a 'demand' item in the FiST community, outside of a handful of people.

Hopefully that changes in time.

 

[rodmoe]

From what I hear wheels are in motion to make this happen for our platform..

 

[Sourskittle]

Maybe in the future someone will offer a 4lobe cam for the stock pump.

$900 sounds like a lot, but... What the next thing down? A $650 WMI kit with a $200 boomba throttle body spacer? That's $50 away from buying the 5th injector from Stratified.

Oddly, I tend to run out of fuel in the 6200+ rpm area, which is where the hpfp should be at its best, but I think i'm running into that "injection window" issue.

 

[dyn085]

Oddly, I tend to run out of fuel in the 6200+ rpm area, which is where the hpfp should be at its best, but I think i'm running into that "injection window" issue.

That's a benefit of fifth port-it opens up headroom on your OEM injectors.

 

[koozy]

5th injector is so 1980's and reminds me of the HKS AIC. It works, but for me proper fuel distribution per cylinder is a concern that I'd probably opt not to run it.

 

[Sourskittle]

5th injector is so 1980's and reminds me of the HKS AIC. It works, but for me proper fuel distribution per cylinder is a concern that I'd probably opt not to run it.

It is an issue on the fist. On non- meth injection tunes, my #1 cylinder normally sees timing corrections first. On meth, my #3 cylinder sees corrections first.

Leads me to believe that our #1 cylinder gets the most flow and #3 gets the worst flow.

Dyn085 I agree with that, I see it all the time with the meth injection.

 

[Boomba Racing]

Maybe in the future someone will offer a 4lobe cam for the stock pump.

$900 sounds like a lot, but... What the next thing down? A $650 WMI kit with a $200 boomba throttle body spacer? That's $50 away from buying the 5th injector from Stratified.

Oddly, I tend to run out of fuel in the 6200+ rpm area, which is where the hpfp should be at its best, but I think i'm running into that "injection window" issue.

Our throttle body spacer is only $64.99 lol

 

[rodmoe]

Also would not the 5th port act as a washing agent for the intake valves reducing the need for a OCC ?

 

[Sourskittle]

Yes Rod it def would.

Boomba, good catch
On the flip side.... If you bought Boomba's intake spacer and did multi-port meth injection with a $650 aem wmi kit, you'd have a hell of a set up with some serious knock resistance !!! But I'd still rather option for Straified's kit and run E85.

Man... E30 and 100% meth injection per cylinder would be a hell of of a fuel... Good range, and it would never run into EGT issues. I'm not gonna debate or guess which would be better, but on 93oct only, a multiport meth system would SMOKE a throttle body injection system running 93oct. Truth is though.... I don't know. I'd defer to Russ. And DHM may even beat Alex to market on the fist since they have seemingly little interest in the fist ( ever see anyone on here with a Straitfied tune ? ).

Alex is the man, so I'm interested to see how it pans out. But if they are not interested, I'm not either.

 

[DHM1]

Also would not the 5th port act as a washing agent for the intake valves reducing the need for a OCC ?

Oil catch can stop oil vapors getting to the valves and stops if from being burned as well. Oil vapor cause some serious knock issues. So no mater how good you can "clean" the valves a oil catch can is needed.

Russ

 

[dyn085]

Oil catch can stop oil vapors getting to the valves and stops if from being burned as well. Oil vapor cause some serious knock issues. So no mater how good you can "clean" the valves a oil catch can is needed.

Russ

This is one of the very few reasons that I would advocate an OCC. If you are going for big power then restoring your octane through the use of one will definitely be helpful and/or necessary. It doesn't apply to many, but it's definitely applicable to some.

 

[rodmoe]

Oil catch can stop oil vapors getting to the valves and stops if from being burned as well. Oil vapor cause some serious knock issues. So no mater how good you can "clean" the valves a oil catch can is needed.

Russ

Ah that is so true .. good thing your are here to keep me honest

 

[Hijinx]

So...when is Russ making a catch can? You know, the dual catch can system that mounts somewhere the 2JR intake doesn't sit. He's got the perfect car in his shop... Just saying.

 

[rodmoe]

So...when is Russ making a catch can? You know, the dual catch can system that mounts somewhere the 2JR intake doesn't sit. He's got the perfect car in his shop... Just saying.

Dude Like he need more junk of mine to work on now LOL great Idea though ... Russ ?? Old Buddy Old Pal..

 

[Hijinx]

Dude Like he need more junk of mine to work on now LOL great Idea though ... Russ ?? Old Buddy Old Pal..

Maybe something that mounts - I don't know, near the bottom of the car, so when you change your oil, you just drain it by turning a valve while you're under there. I'm just spit balling.

 

[Sourskittle]

My srt4 used a WD-40 can that was cut and fiberglassed with air hose nipple fittings poking out the top and a fitting on the bottom that ran to a hose down next to the oil drain plug, lol. Classy.

Then.... To show how pimp I was, I painted the fiberglassed wd40 can like a barber shop pole, lmao. Back we i had no money and lots of time instead of no money and no time, lol. Point is.... Ya ant gots to beez a rocket sciencer to build-ja own caught-can.

 

[DHM1]

So...when is Russ making a catch can? You know, the dual catch can system that mounts somewhere the 2JR intake doesn't sit. He's got the perfect car in his shop... Just saying.

Dude Like he need more junk of mine to work on now LOL great Idea though ... Russ ?? Old Buddy Old Pal..

Maybe something that mounts - I don't know, near the bottom of the car, so when you change your oil, you just drain it by turning a valve while you're under there. I'm just spit balling.

Oh its been on the paper since I got this car. I just am waiting for the right idea and execution to hit me. Also to keep cost down its hard to make it nice with all these stock hose fittings and shit lol

Russ