Running FiST with E85 Blends - Discussion Thread

[RStolz]

Ok I dont have direct experience with nitro so I bow to u on that for sure, my comments there were based on paper research.

And we are saying mostly the same thing with the e blends, just from a slightly different angle. I'll take a pro's words over mine. I do this as a shadetree mechanic, and im not so arrogant as to disagree with the pros ... usually

 

[pwnall1337]

Hey guys,

I have an e85 valero across the street from where I work and it's $1.99/gallon. I'm going to try to have my cobb stage 3 e85 tuned by JMS if the fuelling setup will support it. I'm curious to see what it can do, however the e85 on my z06 was upsetting me cause of 7.5 mpg and having to refill twice a week. I'm hoping the fiesta does much better mpg wise.

 

[koozy]

Hey guys,

I have an e85 valero across the street from where I work and it's $1.99/gallon. I'm going to try to have my cobb stage 3 e85 tuned by JMS if the fuelling setup will support it. I'm curious to see what it can do, however the e85 on my z06 was upsetting me cause of 7.5 mpg and having to refill twice a week. I'm hoping the fiesta does much better mpg wise.

Several of us are running ethanol blends without issue. With on the fly map switching I've got maps for E10, E20, E30, E40 and E45. Check out my build thread for some insight on how to plumb a content analyzer if you're looking to do that. http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/3074-koozy-s-ST

Here's a rough gauge of what one can expect with OTS base tunes of Stg 3 and Stg 3 with E40. With the stock turbo there's un-likely any gains to be had beyond E45 and at a cost of losing fuel mileage.

 

[Sourskittle]

I go 4 days on E40-E45. We only have a 12gal tank so it still goes fast.

 

[pwnall1337]

I go 4 days on E40-E45. We only have a 12gal tank so it still goes fast.

I checked earlier and we have the same tank size as the focus st and some of their guys are running e85. Worse case scenario the extra power isn't worth it and I retune for 93 ($250).

 

[JPGC]

I average 26-28 mpg with my E30 tune. It's about 3-4 mpg lower than my 93 octane tune.

 

[pwnall1337]

I average 26-28 mpg with my E30 tune. It's about 3-4 mpg lower than my 93 octane tune.

I'll be honest, If I can hit 250~ish hp/300+ tq with e85 and cobb stage 3, I'll hold on to the stock turbo for at least a year. I say this because your e30 numbers impress me.

 

[Sourskittle]

I'll be honest, If I can hit 250~ish hp/300+ tq with e85 and cobb stage 3, I'll hold on to the stock turbo for at least a year. I say this because your e30 numbers impress me.

I'll be honest... Don't waste your time. If you saw 225whp with a protune with E85 and cobb STG3, I'd find yourself another dyno ( or one in so cal at cobb ). 300tq off idle won't be an issue, but timing can only add some much. Leaning the fuel mixture out can only do so much.

Now.... Maybe if you convert to BHP or euro standards of measuring power, lol.

That being said, even with 215-225whp on E85, or E40 or Exx; you can greatly improve power. Its always going to have that sledge hammer at low rpm feeling mixed with "is this thing still accelerating" feeling in the higher rpms until you upgrade the turbo.

 

[Sourskittle]

Ok... I just re-read. Your not talking whp i guess ( non-wheel hp is sort of a myth, but I guess it makes people feel better like BHP ).

 

[JPGC]

I'll be honest, If I can hit 250~ish hp/300+ tq with e85 and cobb stage 3, I'll hold on to the stock turbo for at least a year. I say this because your e30 numbers impress me.

Keep in mind also that my E30 numbers are Vdyno and those numbers are from my best log to date. I haven't done any logs with my 2JR intake and Modified MBRP catback yet either.

 

[pwnall1337]

Ok... I just re-read. Your not talking whp i guess ( non-wheel hp is sort of a myth, but I guess it makes people feel better like BHP ).

Assume I'm always talking whp. Real power is measured at the wheels. I've got a pretty good tuner here in SATX.

 

[Sourskittle]

Assume I'm always talking whp. Real power is measured at the wheels. I've got a pretty good tuner here in SATX.

Lol. I agree with you
Then the statement stands. More important to me is how good the car FEELS. If we all just wanted a stupid fast FWD car we'd have bought a turbo cobalt SS, srt4, or MS3. The fiesta is slower than those cars. Yet... The way the car drives is what makes it fun. So... Dyno racing, trap speed racing, or even road course racing can not define a car or the way it drives. So... Even if your at 200-215-220-230whp, just don't focus on the one peak rpm and focus on how the power is made and how the car feel.

Did I just talk myself out of a TD04L-19T ? Yep... Lol ( prob not ).

 

[Hijinx]

Assume I'm always talking whp. Real power is measured at the wheels. I've got a pretty good tuner here in SATX.

250whp on E85? Get used to disappointment... I tell you what. If you make 245whp or better, I'll send you a pizza.

 

[me32]

I thought the only issue with E85 on the EB was not enough fuel pump and injector.

 

[pwnall1337]

[MENTION=670]me32[/MENTION] You just made me realize something. The stock FiST can run e85 and be ok, but probably not a cobb stage 3. If fuelling maxes out at 330~ on 91 It would be rougly 220-230 fwhp on e85 right? I'm calculating about 30% more fuel required. We really need to get this fuelling thing figured out. It's a dissapointment.

 

[dyn085]

[MENTION=670]me32[/MENTION] You just made me realize something. The stock FiST can run e85 and be ok, but probably not a cobb stage 3. If fuelling maxes out at 330~ on 91 It would be rougly 220-230 fwhp on e85 right? I'm calculating about 30% more fuel required. We really need to get this fuelling thing figured out. It's a dissapointment.

The FoST only just recently came to a fuel solution, and it started production a year earlier. Anticipate that timetable and anything sooner being a bonus. Part of me thinks it will be sooner simply because it's established on the FoST, though part of me thinks it will take longer because the FiST community is so much smaller and the demand doesn't drive it.

 

[JPGC]

The FoST only just recently came to a fuel solution, and it started production a year earlier. Anticipate that timetable and anything sooner being a bonus. Part of me thinks it will be sooner simply because it's established on the FoST, though part of me thinks it will take longer because the FiST community is so much smaller and the demand doesn't drive it.

How different or similar is our fuel system to the FoST? I wonder if our connectors and lines are the same...as if we could use their pump, injectors, etc.

 

[Sourskittle]

I asked the guys building both solutions for the fost fueling about making us something about 2-3 months ago. They wanted like 10 re-payed buyers up front. And I was like..... Ummm no. Lol.

I ran 29.7psi on E45 with no knock and no lean spots on the stock turbo ( with all the cyborg parts bolted to it ). It made 354tq too. Felt like it was gonna rip the engine out of the car, then.... Felt like I was driving a 94' SOHC honda civic with no turbo after I got to 5,000rpm, lol. But the torque was fun !!!

 

[DHM1]

Couple things you guys have to take in to account when talking about di fuels systems. Di hpfps are ran off the cam lobe. This makes them rpm dependent. As rpm goes up fuel flow goes up. So on 93oct the fuel system can support 300whp to 330whp best case. But that is only at about 6k rpm and above. So you say ok we'll make more power by revving it high... No now as rpm rises the injection window gets smaller and smaller which means you either need bigger injectors or more pressure to get enough fuel in the smaller window. Di fuel systems are very dynamic and have more variables than what our industry is use to. A aux fuel system ("5th" injector, secondary injectors) is a great option to fix this issue. This fix only has real limitations in injector size, intake fuel pump, and cylinder to cylinder distribution.

Get a turbo set up that makes a nice and long flat tq curve on 93 Oct. or get a secondary fuel system I believe that these will be the two best options for our cars when it comes to making fun reliable power.

Russ

 

[dyn085]

How different or similar is our fuel system to the FoST? I wonder if our connectors and lines are the same...as if we could use their pump, injectors, etc.

I'm sure it's like all the other parts that I've looked at between the two and ultimately found to be different.

The FoST is just using a 5th port, as described above. Fully plug and play, reversible, and upgradeable should the time arrive. But that's a substantially larger market with many more people that have cash burning holes in their pockets. I don't think a day goes by that I don't see someone new going BT.