Used Oil Analysis Reports

[BeansNCornbread]

Nice samples.

BTW, I looked an mine does have the smaller FoMoCo filter on it.

Ty. Pretty low wearing engines I think. Certainly aren't throwing out the wear metals that the 2.0L's have been. I haven't gotten that good a look at mine I guess, but it is still the factory installed filter on there so when it comes off at 5K I will let you know.

 

[koozy]

Here are my latest. The 2/15 sample is Valvoline 5w20 mineral and the 3/22 sample is Valvoline 5w30 mineral. Run in was complete with the 3/22 sample which consisted of hard but staged throttle application and back sealing.

Nice results. Thought I'd put mine up here next to yours for comparison with a factory fill change at 5k. The higher moly content in the factory fill seem to indicate that the factory fill may be a special break-in blend. It'd be interesting to compare with a Motorcraft 5w-20 analysis to see the moly content with that oil. Interestingly your sodium numbers are higher for each oil change, any idea where that's coming from? Did you order TBN's with those oil samples?

 

[BeansNCornbread]

No, I wont start doing TBNs until maybe after 10K when I feel good about extending the drain interval past 5 and settle on what oil I'm going to run.

I've read that the moly is from the assembly process as well so who knows. The tribology prof's, builders, and engineers I've talked to (some in house at my company) say to get the FFill out as soon as you get the car home then several short OCIs until trends show a leveling of the metal occurrence. That said I don't know of anyone who can substantially show any benefit one way or the other.

Sodium is part of the add pack in Valvoline. View attachment 4639

 

[Natedogg]

After stumbling upon an SAE article written by some folks at Ford/Conoco, I think I have changed my mind and I am going to do my first change at 3000 miles. The article explains how changing oil too soon can actually cause more wear because the films from the first fill haven't been allowed to build up fully, effectively extending the time you see "break-in" particles in UOAs. The fresh oil with higher additive contents can "wash away" the film that has started to build up from the factory fill. Washing it away too soon with fresh oil can cause more wear (the amount is small, but measurable), and you see elevated iron, copper, etc. levels across more UOAs. At 3000 miles the film thickness was the same as it is at 12,000 miles, so running it longer doesn't make much difference.

Now this doesn't mean you can go way over on the drain interval, but it just shows that changing the FF out too soon can cause more harm than good. The FF seems to have a high zinc count, pointing to Ford wanting some extra ZDDP in there to help build up that film.

SAE paper 2007-01-4133

I'm trying to find a full copy of it. So far all I have found are bits and pieces.

 

[BeansNCornbread]

Id seen that one too. Then on BITOG it was blown out of the water. Went along the same lines as changing brands causes more wear and changing too often causes more wear because the tribo films are cleaned off by different add packs or fresh oil. As I recall the SAE paper was based on theoretical premise and UOA versus what was later realized through physical inspection. The UOA will show increased 'wear' metals because the fresh oil/different chemistry is pulling oxidized 'wear' metals from the surfaces of the engine, but wear isn't actually increasing.

 

[Natedogg]

I wouldn't say it was "blown out of the water" on BITOG. The engineers and chemists know what they are talking about on that forum tend to agree with the article, and everyone else just have opinions. I tend to ignore BITOG any more because most of what is on there are guys just throwing around opinions but if I do look at BITOG, I read it carefully and look for the guys that have some actual experience. While I don't claim to be an expert, I also avoid my own opinion and rather find as much hard data as I can.

There is a full article done by the same guys with part inspections and it backs up what this article says. Running the break-in oil long enough that the metals become abrasive is a bad idea but changing it too soon can have negative effects as well.

While saying "used oil is better than new oil" is just stupid and ignorant, it is a known fact that fresh oil doesn't protect against wear as well as oil that has been heat cycled a few times. A few additives in oil require heat to work properly, and ZDDP is one of them.

Like I said, the amount of extra wear is small but noticeable. If you choose to change your oil sooner, that's up to you.

 

[BeansNCornbread]

From what the users Shannow and Molakule said I’d say it was pretty well blown out of the water. The builders and engineers here at my employer agree with the premise that frequent oil changes are superior for engine life and performance as well, but also go on to say the average auto owner will likely never realize the benefit. These are dealing with large scale gear sets and turbines and not automotive mind you.

The fact is the first start up and run in to operating temperature generate the most wear in metal in addition to the other contaminants so it would make sense that getting these out as soon as possible would mitigate damage or excessive wear from overly contaminated oil. The same would roll forward if choosing to run in the engine hard as is also recommended more often than not the by the builders.

As I indicated before and should be common sense to automotive enthusiasts one is not likely to see any benefit one way or the other to oil change frequency during run in. So take what either of us is posting with that in mind. The only exception might be dyno testing or maybe fuel economy and oil consumption, but there are too many variables to isolate performance one way or another being solely related to the oil change frequency.

BITOG is a mine field for certain, but as you have experienced there are those still active there that are qualified. You can set your preferences to follow them if you prefer to avoid the noise. That’s what I did.

 

[Natedogg]

I was also considering taking a sample and sending it in at 1500 just to see how it's doing. Just unscrew the drain enough to get some in to the container without doing a full drain. I'm trying to take care of this engine because I want to keep the car and I'm always super anal with my boosted engines.

 

[BeansNCornbread]

Or if you want to spend the money you can order a sample extractor from Blackstone. I have one and they are pretty easy to use. I will use mine more once I get into extending the OCIs beyond 5K. http://www.blackstone-labs.com/vacuum-pump.php.

 

[westcoaST]

Here is my analysis after 19K on Amsoil signature series ALMQT 5W-20.

 

[Natedogg]

Wow. That's a great report. When did you do your first oil change?

 

[westcoaST]

1000 miles was my first oil change. I used semi-synth Motorcraft 5W-20 and an MC filter from Walmart. Then at approx. 5000 miles I switched to full synth Amsoil. I use it in all my vehicles.

 

[Natedogg]

That 1000-1500 mark to drain the factory magic unicorn juice and using the MC semi-synth to 5000 miles seems to be a winner. I may pick up a jug at Walmart instead of changing to PP so soon and do my change this weekend (should be at 1300-1400 by then).

 

[BeansNCornbread]

Here is my analysis after 19K on Amsoil signature series ALMQT 5W-20.

That is an awesome report by the metals. Are you certain that was 5w20? The starting 100C viscosity is 8.6 per Amsoil so if it thickened that much it oxidized rather heavily.

 

[westcoaST]

Yep, 5W-20 Amsoil is what I use. I purchase it by the case.

 

[BeansNCornbread]

Yep, 5W-20 Amsoil is what I use. I purchase it by the case.

Weird. Would you mind asking BStone to re-run? They will typically do that when prompted from what I've experienced. The wear metal is near phenomenal, but the increase in viscosity from oxidation can indicate the potential for sludge. As you can agree this would be highly unlikely with Amsoil.

 

[Natedogg]

Isn't Amsoil usually a little on the heavy side of the grade anyway?

 

[BeansNCornbread]

Isn't Amsoil usually a little on the heavy side of the grade anyway?

Their HTHS numbers are often by .1 or so CST from what I've seem but not their operating numbers too often and certainly not by that much. Bstone may have made an error too. I seriously doubt it is that high in 20wt at that low a mile oci. Maybe after 25k though. Obviously I can be wrong too .

 

[westcoaST]

Engine has 20k on it. Oil had 6500 miles on it. E40 tuning going on. I've asked for another a analysis.

 

[BeansNCornbread]

Thanks man. I've used UOA and E40/E blends, but not had oxidation issues. Your engine and tune appear to be flawless.