Oil information: NOACK and SAPS

[Natedogg]

Since I see the oil issue in quite a few threads, I figured I would start a thread that contains the oil data for different oils that are super important to the turbo GDI engine world. A high NOACK volatility (ASTM D-5800) and SAPS (sulfated ash) contributes to carbon buildup on valves. There is different data floating around the internet that NOACK isn't as important as SAPS and everything in between so my best advice is to find BOTH low NOACK and SAPS.

Finding the NOACK, SAPS data, or both is proving to be a challenge for most OTS oils, including Motorcraft's own oils. Here's what I have so far. If you have data that I don't have, please post it. I will do my best to update the first post as it gets posted.

Please remember that the NOACK for a 5w-20 will be different than it's 5w-30, 0w-20, 10w-30 etc. counterparts. I have also found independent tests that show a particular oil has a different NOACK than the manufacturer shows (for example, Pennzoil Ultra has a lower NOACK in AMSOIL's tests than Pennzoil shows in their data sheet).

This data is for reference only. Please remember there is a lot more to oil than NOACK and SAPS, like wear properties, sheer resistance, and additives. This will just guide you to choosing the right oil for our turbo GDI engines.

One other test we should be particularly cautious with is the TEOST test (ASTM D6335). This test shows how the oil creates it's own deposits when exposed to heat. This is particularly important for GDI engines because the more deposits it creates under high heat, the more deposits will form on the intake valves and intake ports. It's also important even for water cooled turbos but especially for oil only turbos because a lower number will produce less coking in the center housing.

GF-5 spec upper limit for the TEOST test is 30 mg of total deposits formed.

Reference - NOACK below 15% passes the ASTM D-5800 test, but the lower number the better. Sulfated Ash of 0.5% to 0.7% = low SAPS, 0.8% to 0.9% = mid-SAPS, >1% = high SAPS

All oils meet Ford WSS-M2C945-A unless otherwise noted.

Mobil 1 Advanced Full Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - UNKNOWN
SAPS - 0.83%

Mobil 1 Extended Performance Full Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - UNKNOWN
SAPS - 0.8%
TEOST - 22.5 mg

Pennzoil Platinum 5w-20:
NOACK - 8.6% according to Pennzoil's tests, 6.5 in independent tests
SAPS - less than or equal to 1.3%
TEOST - 9 mg (unconfirmed)

Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5w-20:
NOACK - 10.5%
SAPS - less than or equal to 1.3%
TEOST - 9 mg

Pennzoil Gold Synthetic Blend 5w-20:
NOACK - 13.4%
SAPS - unknown

Quaker State Ultimate Durability 5w-20:
NOACK - 13.4%
SAPS - unknown
TEOST - 13 mg

Valvoline Maxlife Full Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 9.3%
SAPS - 1.0%

Valvoline Synpower Full Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 10%
SAPS - 0.93%
TEOST - 7 mg

Valvoline Dura-blend Synthetic Blend 5w-20:
NOACK - 11%
SAPS - 0.99%
TEOST - Between 8 mg and 13 mg (can't confirm exact for 5w-20)

Redline High Performance 5w-20:
NOACK - 8%
SAPS - unknown
TEOST - 29.1 mg to 31.4 mg range over 3 tests

Motorcraft Synthetic Blend 5w-20:
NOACK - 15.2%
SAPS - unknown

Motorcraft XO-5W20-QFS Full Synthetic
NOACK - 13-15% (unconfirmed)
SAPS - unknown

Motul Specific 948b 5w-20 (meets Ford WSS-M2C948-B NOT WSS-M2C945-A):
NOACK - unknown
SAPS - 0.78%

Amsoil Signature Full Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 6.3%
SAPS - unknown
TEOST - 5 mg

Amsoil XL Extended Life Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 9.9%
SAPS - unknown

Amsoil OE Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 10.0%
SAPS - unknown

Castrol Edge with Titanium Fluid Strength Technology Full Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 10.5%
SAPS - unknown
TEOST - 3.5 MG

Royal Purple "High Performance" API licensed:
NOACK: 9.5%
SAPS - less than 1%
TEOST - 9.9 mg

ENEOS Full Synthetic 5w-20 (NOT WSS-M2C945-A compliant)
NOACK: 9.5% (10.8% in independent tests)
SAPS:
TEOST:

Useful link I found that shows the current PQI test results for all 5w-20 oils they have tested:

http://www.pqiamerica.com/Feb2014/c...6,+2014&utm_campaign=4-21-14&utm_medium=email

Shared Google Spreadsheet containing oil information:
http://goo.gl/lsO3gp

 

[XuperXero]

Thanks for this. I've looked into this before I purchased my FiST. Due to warranty issues, I've been using Motorcraft's XO-5W20-QFS.

I couldn't find much details on specs, but another forum mentioned a general range. Take it with a grain of salt.

Motorcraft XO-5W20-QFS Full Synthetic
NOACK - 13-15% (unconfirmed)
SAPS - unknown

 

[Natedogg]

Thanks. I found a little info on the Motul 948b:

Motul Specific 948b 5w-20 (meets Ford WSS-M2C948-B NOT WSS-M2C945-A):
NOACK - unknown
SAPS - 0.78%

WSS-M2C948-B is the spec required for the 1.0 Ecoboost, so I seriously doubt it would make a difference in the 1.6 Ecoboost, but for warranty purposes I might not use it.

 

[Natedogg]

Amsoil Signature Full Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 6.3%
SAPS - unknown

Amsoil XL Extended Life Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 9.9%
SAPS - unknown

Amsoil OE Synthetic 5w-20:
NOACK - 10.0%
SAPS - unknown

 

[Etyrnus]

Definitely good info to have, thanks!

 

[Natedogg]

Just put in the Motorcraft Synthetic Blend NOACK. Looks like 1000 miles looks good to switch off of it for me.

I also added the link to the PQI site that has all of the 5w-20's they have tested to date. Still no SAPS figures in there though. This is rough finding all of the info I want.

Also, I'm looking at the TBN figures on the Pennzoil Platinum and fresh oil is pretty high, usually suggesting a higher SAPS. I asked them for their SAPS figures, so hopefully the TBN is high because they substituted sulfated ash with something better.

 

[Natedogg]

Just found out why it's so hard getting the SAPS information. Because it's only required for European cars, the oil manufacturers don't test the SAPS content in any oil other than Euro oils. Of course, 5w-20 is only used in North American cars from what I see.

 

[OCDFist]

I changed out (assuming) dealer-installed 5W20 semi-synth Motorcraft for 5W20 Mobil1 at 4,000 miles. The MC oil was quite fuel-diluted IMO for just being changed a few hundred miles prior to me buying the car. I changed to Amsoil Signature 5W20 at 6,500 miles last week and the Mobil1 was fuel-diluted as well. Hopefully the Amsoil fares better. No Blackstone data, just my nose.

 

[Natedogg]

GDIs are known for some fuel dilution. Me personally, I wouldn't go more than 5000 or 6000 miles on an oil change on good oil in a turbo GDI. Getting a UOA would be a good idea.

I think the Amsoil Signature is a good bet, but the Pennzoil Platinum (not the Ultra) and Redline seem pretty good too, but the Redline doesn't seem to fare so well in some of the wear tests. The PP hangs within #2 or #3 of Amsoil.

The Pennzoil Ultra Platinum has me puzzled. It's NOACK isn't stellar, but it must have one hell of an additive package in it, which makes me wonder if the extra additives contribute to the higher NOACK but would help combat carbon buildup on the intake ports/valves.

I will keep my Mobil 1 comments to myself...

 

[Natedogg]

Just got a response from Pennzoil on the SAPS of Ultra and Platinum:

"Hi Nathan: Pennzoil Ultra Platinum 5W-20 carries the ACEA A1/B1 credential, therefore it is less than or equal to 1.3% m/m sulfated ash content by definition. While Pennzoil Platinum 5W-20 does not carry the ACEA A1/B1 credential, it too is less than or equal to 1.3% m/m sulfated ash."

That makes it high SAPS.

 

[Natedogg]

One other test we should be particularly cautious with is the TEOST test (ASTM D6335). This test shows how the oil creates it's own deposits when exposed to heat. This is particularly important for GDI engines because the more deposits it creates under high heat, the more deposits will form on the intake valves and intake ports. It's also important even for water cooled turbos but especially for oil only turbos because a lower number will produce less coking in the center housing.

GF-5 spec upper limit is 30 mg of total deposits formed. I will add this to the first post as I find the info.

 

[re-rx7]

What ive been saying all this time about Pennzoil being hard to beat off the shelf.

 

[Natedogg]

It's not bad at all. The SAPS is much higher than I expected though, especially since it's supposedly based on a perfectly clean base oil. There are other additives they can use to get the TBE higher other than sulfated ash.

If you can find someone that gets Amsoil at wholesale, the Signature is about $30/5 gallon jug. To me that's worth it. I wouldn't do the 15,000 mile drain they recommend with Amsoil though.

I added the TEOST results to the ones I could find the info on.

Also, I am seeing indications of the FoST guys switching to full synthetic at 1000 to 1500 miles and them getting a delayed break-in because of it in their UOAs. I may change the oil at 1000 and use a semi-synthetic until 5000, then go full synthetic. I may not use the Motorcraft though because that NOACK is really high.

 

[re-rx7]

It's not bad at all. The SAPS is much higher than I expected though, especially since it's supposedly based on a perfectly clean base oil. There are other additives they can use to get the TBE higher other than sulfated ash.

If you can find someone that gets Amsoil at wholesale, the Signature is about $30/5 gallon jug. To me that's worth it. I wouldn't do the 15,000 mile drain they recommend with Amsoil though.

I added the TEOST results to the ones I could find the info on.

I agree. I was referring to readily avail oils. I think you mean 5 qt jug? Lol

 

[Natedogg]

That would be awesome if it was a 5 gallon! Sign me up! LOL

I am liking the Valvoline Synthetic Blend for the 1000-5000 mile mark. It seems to have the lowest NOACK and SAPS of any of the synthetic blends with a very respectable TEOST result. If I had to run a blend full time in my FiST, it would be the Valvoline Blend over the Motorcraft any day of the week.

 

[jaynometry]

Thanks for taking the time to research and do this thread Natedogg (RIP btw, I was a big fan). Seriously, I've never paid no attention to NOACK scores before when I had my WRX. I used to just buy Motul 5w30 from a supplier with an OEM filter and that was it. Thanks to you though, I know which to get for my next oil changes.

 

[Natedogg]

Thanks. I tend to be a bit anal with arming myself with as much information as I can and I know I'm not the only one. I just want everyone to be aware of the issue and help everyone make informed decisions.

In the GDI age, we have to be a bit more cautious with the oils and fuels we choose. BMW and VW released GDI engines in the mid-2000's with no information regarding the effects GDI would have and it affected a lot of people in a very negative way. For quite a few years, we had zero or conflicting information as to what we could do to mitigate the effects of carbon on GDI engines. I got bit by carbon in a GDI engine once (mostly because of the previous owner), I will not have it again, and I hope to save as many folks as I can from it.

 

[CanadianGuy]

Just want to add Royal Purple synthetic (not hps) does meet Ford WSS-M2C945-A. With a noack of about 10

 

[Etyrnus]

I'm already approaching 18k miles, so I'll be switching to a full syn shortly. Hopefully the fact that most of my driving is highway, plus I don't baby the car, keeps this from possibly being an issue.

 

[GreGGo]

I've run Mobil 1 Extended in all three of my VW's (two 1.8Ts and one 2.0T TSI) and never had any issues with carbon buildup. Am I just missing something here? I've never heard of oil causing issues so long as its replaced at the proper mileage and not with Wal-Mart Special.