The Evolution of the Green Beast

[grnmachine02]

I think eric meant the engine will not be stressed with x47 power levels


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I mean, the x37 stressed it enough to drop a cylinder...granted, it could have been totally unrelated to the failure. Either way, built engine with a hybrid turbo is likely going to be bomb proof. Sounds like a good idea, really.

 

[masonsturbos]

I really think it had something to do with the tune... but that's just me


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[DHM1]

I really think it had something to do with the tune... but that's just me


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Yea the tune caused the piston to crack but leave the bearing, cylinder wall and plugs looking perfect lol. Keep you opinions to your self and stir a pot else where.

Russ


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[Pete]

Yea the tune caused the piston to crack but leave the bearing, cylinder wall and plugs looking perfect lol. Keep you opinions to your self and stir a pot else where.

Russ


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Spoiler alert haha also seeing the damage first hand in no way was the tune at fault.

 

[DHM1]

Yea us being the tuner and having the confidence and experience to know it was not our fault and letting the customer come take his own engine apart. That Mason guy makes it his day job to slander and hurt my business.

Russ


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[Pete]

Yea us being the tuner and having the confidence and experience to know it was not our fault and letting the customer come take his own engine apart. That Mason guy makes it his day job to slander and hurt my business.

Russ


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I also feel for those that watched the video I posted and the upcoming one, then it would be clear to all this was an engine/piston issue and if anything bring light to people who do road racing as what the heat build up can do.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Hybrid turbos are a great option for those in cali that can have visual inspections pretty much anytime they get pulled over

Russ

True, but if their LEOs and emissions Gestapo are that astute at recognizing non-factory parts, they will be able to tell that there is no C.A.R.B. plate on the down pipe/catcon, and that his IC and charge pipes are not factory as well.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I mean, the x37 stressed it enough to drop a cylinder...granted, it could have been totally unrelated to the failure. Either way, built engine with a hybrid turbo is likely going to be bomb proof. Sounds like a good idea, really.

^^^THIS!

 

[Pete]

True, but if their LEOs and emissions Gestapo are that astute at recognizing non-factory parts, they will be able to tell that there is no C.A.R.B. plate on the down pipe/catcon, and that his IC and charge pipes are not factory as well.

I have the oem cat that has been modified so I just have to put the heat shield on and it's back to looking like factory. During the smog process they aren't allowed to remove anything. Also I have a factory grill to go back on to hide the intecooler. Along with the lower grill. And my skidplate covers the charge pipes well.

 

[DvC]

Damn Cali cares about charge pipes?

 

[Pete]

Damn Cali cares about charge pipes?

depends on the smog shop. Some have portable/movable mirrors to look under the cars and some don't. Cali sucks when it comes to emissions hence why most people "pay to pass" if they know a dirty smog place.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I have the oem cat that has been modified so I just have to put the heat shield on and it's back to looking like factory. During the smog process they aren't allowed to remove anything. Also I have a factory grill to go back on to hide the intercooler. Along with the lower grill. And my skidplate covers the charge pipes well.

Sounds like a plan!!

 

[Pete]

Newest video is up! Russ and I take a closer look once the piston is removed and the block gets ready for the machine shop.

[video=youtube_share;5_wgNnovPGU]https://youtu.be/5_wgNnovPGU[/video]

 

[masonsturbos]

Okay guys, I did watch the video and what I saw, here we go, are you ready?!?
Melted the top of the piston first, right- we can all agree on that, next, and this is simple metallurgical engineering, the excessive heat causes strain hardening and stress fractures to find the path of least resistance. Once you had heat able to get by the rings from the melted ring land, it all went down hill from there...
ringlands don't just kill themselves- think what you want but I still hold my argument.

Piston skirts are not designed to handle load, the top of the piston is, so when you allow cylinder pressures to get past the face of the piston, stresses occur as well as lots of heat. Heat treatments of aluminum and most other materials make them more brittle, so- you take a material not designed to take loads, make it brittle, and heat it up, it's gunna crack.
Is it maybe a casting flaw? Maybe, but at the end of the day the face of the piston melted. That's where the problems started


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[DHM1]

Okay guys, I did watch the video and what I saw, here we go, are you ready?!?
Melted the top of the piston first, right- we can all agree on that, next, and this is simple metallurgical engineering, the excessive heat causes strain hardening and stress fractures to find the path of least resistance. Once you had heat able to get by the rings from the melted ring land, it all went down hill from there...
ringlands don't just kill themselves- think what you want but I still hold my argument.

Piston skirts are not designed to handle load, the top of the piston is, so when you allow cylinder pressures to get past the face of the piston, stresses occur as well as lots of heat. Heat treatments of aluminum and most other materials make them more brittle, so- you take a material not designed to take loads, make it brittle, and heat it up, it's gunna crack.
Is it maybe a casting flaw? Maybe, but at the end of the day the face of the piston melted. That's where the problems started


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Mason you clearly have zero clue and experience in engines. I really wish you would spend the time trying to educate and get experience than tarnish someone's name. I have close to 500-600ebgine builds over 13year span. Let break down your "theory" and "assumptions"

"Melted the top of the piston first, right- we can all agree on that, next, and this is simple metallurgical engineering, the excessive heat causes strain hardening and stress fractures to find the path of least resistance. Once you had heat able to get by the rings from the melted ring land, it all went down hill from there... "

Anytime the top of a piston melts first it's because the high combustion gas and air fuel mix has a path to least resistance. When this happens it's a torch and causes a lot of damage and clear tell tale signs.

High temps, to much timing, to lean cause things like pre ignition to happen. Pre ignition means a flame front developed not from the spark plug. The the spark plug light this cause two flame fronts to collide and when it does cylinder pressure spikes are huge! This cause the piston to rock hard back and forth fast.

The piston above is the one out of my personal shop car. Stock engine and made 430-440whp when this happened. You can see small dots and wear marks on thrust and anti thrust sides the wear in the cylinder wall confirmed this. The piston was rocking hard in the bore during this and temps and pressure reached a point that it torched and melted fast and hot. Also typically bad tune melting a piston always go path of least resistance like here where it's in the thin exhaust pocket. This is a tune that was to aggressive.


"ringlands don't just kill themselves- think what you want but I still hold my argument."

These are two different engines that had ring land failures under low load on stock or
Minor bolt on cars during cruising. This is 2.0 EcoBoost and a very common issue. So common ford has recognized this and it's ver similar to the common subaru issues. Also they are the same piston manufacturer.

These engines did not melt the top and had near perfect compression but only found this issue when a leak down test was completed.


"Piston skirts are not designed to handle load, the top of the piston is, so when you allow cylinder pressures to get past the face of the piston, stresses occur as well as lots of heat. Heat treatments of aluminum and most other materials make them more brittle, so- you take a material not designed to take loads, make it brittle, and heat it up, it's gunna crack. "

Here we have a 3.5 EcoBoost with the same skirt and pin boss design and same piston manufacturer and clearly see the skirt is broke and fractured in the same TRUST side.

http://speed.academy/pri-spotlight-je-pistons-asymmetrical-piston-design/

Here is a article as to what asymmetrical piston skirts are and the big load differences are.

Any time heat get past the 1st land and causes things to let like I stated above it causes a toruch and damages and leaves CLEAR damage on the skirts and/or cylinder walls. Bellow is examples of that.

This is 1.6 EcoBoost that was pushed to hard and you can see the dome that is melted and rounded over this is a Heat issue.

I will end with [MENTION=1650]Pete[/MENTION] 's engine was a clear piston failure. Anyone with really engine experience will agree.

Thank you

Russ


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[masonsturbos]

Thank you- not like I'm in metallurgical engineering classes. You essentially told us how det happens and that is all in the tune. You posted numerous pictures of melted pistons, thank you- not all are as severe as those and if you apply my knowledge and "theory" it is plausible since that is the mechanics of heat treating metals.
So when you see cracks in the skirt that are directly tied to a melted land.
Thank you,
Mason



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[DHM1]

Thank you- not like I'm in metallurgical engineering classes. You essentially told us how det happens and that is all in the tune. You posted numerous pictures of melted pistons, thank you- not all are as severe as those and if you apply my knowledge and "theory" it is plausible since that is the mechanics of heat treating metals.
So when you see cracks in the skirt that are directly tied to a melted land.
Thank you,
Mason



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No where in the pistons shows "heat" the dome, the skirts, the pin, the under side of dome, etc no where shows heat. All that is shown here is a skirt fracture that cause a melting point directly about the center focus of the fracture. I'm sure everyone besides you can see there is no excessive heat marks anywhere.

When combustion chamber heat is a issue it always takes path of least resistance! Which is why [MENTION=759]Hijinx[/MENTION] and myselfs engine had the same exact failure. In the same thin exhaust pocket

This is [MENTION=1650]Pete[/MENTION] exhaust pocket.

Again this is knowledge, experience and facts talking not assumptions and theory.


Russ






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[masonsturbos]

Looks melted to me- melted shows "heat" cuz metal doesn't melt without heat.


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[masonsturbos]

In fact, thank you for those pictures- after zooming in it sure looks like it had ignited past the ring and again- that part of the piston isn't meant for forces to be applied on- crack starts where pressure was allowed.



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[Pete]

On another note for those not following my instagram, Tshirt Driving, I am in the process of my LSD and final drive.

@Mason instead of spending my time looking to attack someone constantly, myself and other members and venders are doing work, being the pioneers, and breaking things, and pushing the limits so others can then think about the upgrade path they will take. I will say I have probably tracked my Fiesta close to if not the most on road courses. Granted I haven't posted every time I have gone but road racing puts high stress on all components of a car. Anyways I am going to get back to work.