Considering making an EFR kit to offer, anybody interested?

[Sourskittle]

Keep in mind that us UsDM guys have access tuner. Euro guys have, well, what ever it is they use. But while I can't be sure, I think access tuner is a good bit more powerful when it comes to what can be tuned. So comparing a GTx turbo tuned with access tuner vs a EFR tuned with what ever mass-air based system perrin is using, may not really be "apples to apples".

It prob does not mean anything to most people, and with a bigger turbo, it may not mean as much either, but anything above 265-270whp is going to mean either pump gas or extremely expensive race gas, E30 is going to be out of the question until Alex from Stratified finishes his throttle body plate injector or we get some HPFI upgrades.

Judging from what I've seen so far ( without an EFR tuned with access tuner ) I'd def take the GTx turbo. Of course... Lots of other variables. Intake used? Downpipe/exhaust? Temp during dyno? Humidity? Intercooler size? As well as a zillion things to look at in the tune its self. Its def way too early to say the gtx is better for spool-up. I think in the end, we'll find the EFR can produce more power faster.

I'm going to enjoy watching it unfold, either way and I'm enjoying all this new info that was never posted as well

 

[ian.j]

just finished installing my AEM water/meth kit today and will be back to the rollers soon to do some back to back runs with the meth and without on the same map to see what difference it makes to the power and charge temps.

 

[Sourskittle]

Ian, i'm very much looking forward to the results of that as well !!

 

[airjor13]

just finished installing my AEM water/meth kit today and will be back to the rollers soon to do some back to back runs with the meth and without on the same map to see what difference it makes to the power and charge temps.

Definitely interested in results!

 

[crankin]

just finished installing my AEM water/meth kit today and will be back to the rollers soon to do some back to back runs with the meth and without on the same map to see what difference it makes to the power and charge temps.

Interested as well. My kit is on order 4-6 weeks. Being the dollar has gone to shit is cheaper to by local, which I prefer anyhow. Gives me time to sort out some other stuff. Keep us posted and some details like which kit nozzle size etc.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Thanks SS,

I have been seriously considering just getting a GTX and let others, Rodmoe may be the first since he has an EFR on hand, work out the tuning issues then if it can do what I want.........

I have other parts to develop and get on the market and setup a network to sell them, many personal projects to finish to go full time RVing, to spend the time designing the parts to use the EFR right now with so little to go on as far as how it will spool.

Big HP numbers with no bottom end, require WMI to make the numbers, etc....far less appealing to me than a nice fat power band. In a car used for more than just drag racing, etc....a broader power band is faster far more often, safer as well at times, I have dodged serious crashes by being able to squirt out of the way.

BUT, you make some very very good points so I am holding off a bit longer and waiting to hear more from the tuner and hopefully get a log or two to look at.

It is possible the tuning software for the EU cars may not be as good as the AP has available.

I have worked with a 5th injector setup successfully as well but the idea of a piggy back system is not so appealing, if the AP can deal with it that would be optimal but a simple boost controlled system can work. Hopefully not blowing the stock intake manifold, I used to keep a spare on hand for just in case in that earlier project.

----------------------

I really, really, really want to run the EFR and make a lower cost kit for it but it has to make sense to do so, not giving up on it, just looking at it from every angle I can.

Rick

 

[ian.j]

I can say over here the efr is beating the garrets on spool and power

this is the best garret powered car I can find in the uk.

looks like the graph is engine power

 

[RAAMaudio]

I am sure you have seen the VD I posted on the Garrett, GTX2860R, it is beating the EFR on the lower end soundly on the tunes here.....have you seen that particular GTX tuned there?

The EFR is the best turbo there is, I just need to make sure it will do what I need and most others would probably prefer on our 1.6 engine with the fuel, tuning, etc we have here.

Thanks
Rick

 

[Sourskittle]

That puma graph is what I mean... I'm not saying I could do better, but I will say that cobb or another usdm tuner with access port/tuner could make a better looking curve. Which bring me back to the EFR and wanting to see a UsDM car with it and Access tuner tune on it.

 

[ian.j]

I have not seen it but its the top gtx powered car on our uk fiesta forums.

i also know that peron are trying to remove the maf through the ecu but are not sure if it can be done on an EU car

 

[RAAMaudio]

WOW, huge differences when comparing the US and EU GTX results, hard to imagine just the tune can make that much difference when both are custom tunes!

(Ian.j, there must be some kind of time delay as your last post was not up when I made my last post, not on my system at least)

 

[RAAMaudio]

(sorry, meant to have this part of the last post)

I need to take the best run from each plot posted here and overlay them all and see just what the differences are but I am starting to think we are lucky to have a much better way to tune and the EFR may just work out great.

I am very much in appreciation for all these posts, keep them coming, thanks!
Rick

 

[Hijinx]

Sub'd.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Logistically speaking buying a GTX system makes a lot of sense considering everything else I am doing right now but there really is not much adventure in it other than seeing what it can do with a Matt at Panda fine tune, his 4 run tune is quite impressive as it is.

The EFR is still a bit of an unknown with the AP tuning which seems much more comprehensive than what can be done in the EU. I would have to fabricate some critical parts which is far more involved than most might understand unless they have done such things but far more satisfying for a life long DIY guy like me.

This has been my favorite mod thread in years, maybe all my years, in doing such things. I just hope there are enough of us that would want to go this way to help me make if more viable, not in sales, in just knowing we went a different way and made it work.

 

[ian.j]

Pretty sure peron tried the standard manifold but it never had good results, the efr needs a tubular to work well

 

[RAAMaudio]

If it was a totally stock manifold I can see why, it needs ported badly!

Mine is very well ported so I have to try it first, far less chance of cracking a well made cast manifold than a tubular one, the stock one might need ported but is a solid piece.

If I do end up building a tubular manifold there is no way to make a good one cheap but mine would have much shorter runners, be firing order sequence, equal length, weigh less....and still far lower cost than theirs but still, not cheap.

A really well made SS cast manifold would be best for most of our needs but I waited for one of those to test for MONTHS and never got it

 

[rodmoe]

Last I talked to Him the Manifold and the EFR project is still in Dev/testing.. Nothing more ..

 

[Sekred]

Kudos for what you are trying to achieve Rick, building a tubular manifold with shorter runners will be a tough ask. Firing order sequence has no advantage unless your running a twin scroll turbine.
How will this turbo perform with a log style manifold?, I look forward to your progress.
Another problem may be fitting a Catted down pipe?, just looking at the Perron down pipe and the bend in it.

 

[ian.j]

The bend is because the tubular hangs the turbo lower so needs to get back inline for the exhaust

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have not built a single scroll manifold before so did not look into firing order sequence but would of done the research before starting to make as far more effort involved, been there, done that!

It just seems it should still be better than random order as the exhaust pulses would be in sync instead of out of sync which to me makes sense at the speed the turbine spins. If not for better spooling or power it might be better for long term reliability. I will look into this more but right now I will not have the time to build one so will have to just make an adapter to use the well ported stock manifold which I prefer to test first anyway.

I have more room to fit a cat than others have since I built my custom exhaust with the connection from the DP to the exhaust well past the stock pile location so I can run a cat most likely if I chose to which I do prefer. Right now I am catless for some testing but may put one back in as it made very little difference taking it out, a 5" 100 cell cat flows pretty well but I think a 4" may be better as not spreading the exhaust out so far, the 5" may of actually be to big in diameter.