Fiesta Camber Adjustment Tricks

[Phreak]

I'd like to adjust my camber as much as possible, but SCCA rules say no camber plates or aftermarket camber bolts... so it is tricky.

What is allowed is OEM collision/camber bolts and playing around with tolerances within factory parts

Somebody also told me the other day that on a lot of Fords, the shock mount itself can be rotated, as it is not uniform specifically for the purpose of adjusting camber after a collision. I don't know if this is true on the Fiesta, but I'd like to find out.

Any other ideas?

 

[Plainrt]

Following

 

[D1JL]

You can elongate the holes on the front struts.
Using the OE bolts you can get up to negative 3 degrees easily.

There is also a trick you can do for the rear but that's a secret.




Dave

 

[Izzy]

Oh c'mon man!!...lol

 

[RAAMaudio]

Rear,
- Camber shims, nobody has released any yet, I could not get enough interest in them so I went to the below method.
(I would not use the crash alignment correction ones I have seen online)
- Cut, align and reweld axle flanges as I did, a pretty serious job but I figured out an easier way than what I did, still something most should not attempt.
- Find alignment shop with the tools and skills to bend the rear axle ends to what you want them to be.

I have -1.9 rear camber and 0.0 toe, it works great on the track and on the street as well, a bit less in the rear would still be good.
Side benefit is with some good rolling I am able to fit 15x9 wheels under the rear, front was much easier.

 

[D1JL]

Rear camber plates are being tested now.
I have a set on my car.

There is still another method.




Dave

 

[RAAMaudio]

GREAT NEWS!!!!

Still another method?

In testing I used some shim stock and washers but I only drove up and down my street slowly to settle the car, I would not drive on them.

I would advise ensuring the bolts are properly aligned with the plates so a shim may be required on the inside of the axle flange to correct the head angle. That was an issue I had not worked out when I was looking into getting shims made, needed ten orders, none seemed to very interested.

I am glad you are working on this and testing, the car really needs them for the best all out handling on track, much safer to take it to the limit with a bit of under steer on high speed corners.

Thanks

 

[Brick]

You can elongate the holes on the front struts.
Using the OE bolts you can get up to negative 3 degrees easily.

There is also a trick you can do for the rear but that's a secret.




Dave

When you say elongate the front strut holes.... are you talking about taking a drill to the hole to make it larger? I haven't poked my head in the wheelwell yet, so I'm not sure if I am following.

 

[D1JL]

I am talking about the two bolts that connect the strut to the knuckle.
I use a rotary file or a regular round file will doo.
I would not just use a drill.



Dave

 

[RAAMaudio]

The knuckles can be machined, I looked into that, my two local shops were hesitant to do it.

I did swap side to side and rotate the knuckles so I could move the 4 piston calipers forward making hooking up a parking brake easier, I still have to make the cable brackets. The WW calipers are not on their site but I know where to get them.

It does change the camber and toe but it was not what I wanted, perhaps they can be swapped, rotated, etc in a way to get good camber but I did not try it due to the brake setup.

-----------
Front,
Slot the holes in the struts, a die grinder and carbide bit would be easiest but a good round file could be used, I did mods like this in the 70's on 510's the hard way.

 

[Cinemotive Media]

The knuckles can be machined, I looked into that, my two local shops were hesitant to do it.

I did swap side to side and rotate the knuckles so I could move the 4 piston calipers forward making hooking up a parking brake easier, I still have to make the cable brackets. The WW calipers are not on their site but I know where to get them.

It does change the camber and toe but it was not what I wanted, perhaps they can be swapped, rotated, etc in a way to get good camber but I did not try it due to the brake setup.

-----------
Front,
Slot the holes in the struts, a die grinder and carbide bit would be easiest but a good round file could be used, I did mods like this in the 70's on 510's the hard way.

When you say machining, are you suggesting machining the back side at an angle?

 

[Phreak]

^^ Much appreciated guys, but all of the above methods mentioned are not allowed under SCCA rules for stock class

You cannot use camber plates, no modification of parts (such as drilling out or welding), and you cannot use washers unless they are specifically for the car and made by the manufacturer.

Things that would be allowed:
Using up all of the extra tolerance between bolt and hole size
Using OEM methods for adjusting camber, this would include things like;
-Rotating the strut mount, if that is even possible on this car
-Using OEM ford camber/collision bolts

Using a shock with slotted holes might also work, you are allowed to swap shocks in stock class

 

[Brick]

could you make the argument you drove on a washboard type gravel road for 3000 miles and your front strut holes elongated by themselves?

Find out what max tolerance is and elongate to that value?

 

[rodmoe]

Best you can do Legally is to loosen all bolt then lift on the lower part of the disk to pack all the factory slack into the neg position. not a lot but at least you will have tried ..

 

[Phreak]

I have heard of people just hitting things with a hammer, haha

 

[RAAMaudio]

Sometimes the rules favor a particular car and are not well defined enough for others to make up the difference giving certain cars an unfair advantage. In cases like that I believe it is perfectly fine to bend the rules just enough to equalize the playing field and it is not cheating in my book.

I have never broken a rule for an unfair advantage in the 47 years of having fun with this stuff, only tweaked things a bit here and there and not very often just to be on the same level.

Many will buy a car that the rules favor so they have an advantage, to me that is not even a challenge, I prefer to build the wrong car and beat most everyone if not all and actually follow the rules to do so, maybe tweak them a bit but never a gross violation.

I find it far more rewarding to drive an underdog, especially perceived totally wrong car, and beat all but the top one or two cars driven by national champs.

I used to win all the time decades ago in the best car prepared the best, it became quite boring.

 

[Phreak]

I don't see anything wrong with working inside the rules

 

[tiggerbren]

I don't see anything wrong with working inside the rules

So far my car has been very competitive this year, I just want to tweak a few things simply because that is the same game everybody else is playing. I don't really race to win, I race for fun... but I like to be competitive because I love a good challenge.

Aftermarket struts are legal. If one brand of strut happened to allow more neg camber, that would be legal, no? I doubt Konis give that much extra or we'd have heard about it on here. I think anyone who autocrosses their fiesta is dying for someone to find the camber loophole.

Side question- How does increased neg camber compare with increased toe out? Would more toe out compensate for stock camber numbers in any way? The alignment guy in Albuquerque who does most of the racing alignments basically refused to set toe out past even, where I've seen people here claim to have run as much as 3/8" out. Anyway, I'm curious to play around with toe out since camber seems to be frozen under the rules.

One last thought- Maybe the lack of adjustment is one of the factors keeping the Fiesta in H Street. There are two FiSTs in my region right now and when we have a good day, the other classes in our combined group (CS DS ES GS HS) question the classing of the FiST. Yesterday a Mini Cooper S driver was wondering why he's in a harder class and someone brought up the camber adjustments allowed on the Mini, among a few other things. But when I look at raw times for our last event, I had 13th fastest raw with 30.608. The D Street Cooper S was 19th with 31.202 and the STF Cooper was 24th with 31.587, almost a full second off the FiST. I can see why they grumble. It's VERY hard to outPAX a FiST with a mini.