Actually calls out our FiST, https://jalopnik.com/how-a-car-company-decides-if-its-going-to-warranty-your-1821736111
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Interesting article
- Thread starter fooksdaddy01
- Start date
That part is particularly interesting. I've read many time here people saying flashing back to stock tune is undetectable. Well it appears it is not!
"Checking For A Reflash
The IDS (Integrated Diagnostic System) software that Ford technicians use for diagnostic has a few features built into to detect if the car’s software itself has been modified. One such feature is called the ignition counter, which records the number of engine starts since the engine computer was last reflashed. This number should be fairly high for any unmodified car, but it resets to zero when an aftermarket tune is flashed."
"Checking For A Reflash
The IDS (Integrated Diagnostic System) software that Ford technicians use for diagnostic has a few features built into to detect if the car’s software itself has been modified. One such feature is called the ignition counter, which records the number of engine starts since the engine computer was last reflashed. This number should be fairly high for any unmodified car, but it resets to zero when an aftermarket tune is flashed."
My brother is a field service engineer for ford and warned me about this before I put my tune on my car. One way to get around this is to re-flash your engine a few days prior to bringing it in for service and drive it around. If the dealer question the ignition counter, say you had to disconnect the battery for one reason or another. A low ignition counter doesn't 100% confirm you had a tune on the car, but simply suggests that a re flash could have been a possibility.
Lots of good stuff in there. Bozi has been doing a lot of good detective work lately.
One thing I thought was interesting: "technicians are also instructed to look for dash mounts which could be used to mount an aftermarket tuner, but Ford notes that a technician should verify the purpose of any mount with the owner."
Though I usually unpair the AP when I take it into the dealer for service, I leave the mount because I assumed they would just think it's a cell phone or GPS mount. Interesting that they are warned to look for that though. With the ignition timer thing he mentioned, I would probably be fucked anyway if I ended up with some serious engine trouble. Fingers crossed!
One thing I thought was interesting: "technicians are also instructed to look for dash mounts which could be used to mount an aftermarket tuner, but Ford notes that a technician should verify the purpose of any mount with the owner."
Though I usually unpair the AP when I take it into the dealer for service, I leave the mount because I assumed they would just think it's a cell phone or GPS mount. Interesting that they are warned to look for that though. With the ignition timer thing he mentioned, I would probably be fucked anyway if I ended up with some serious engine trouble. Fingers crossed!
After seeing this, if I ever take my car to the dealer I will buy the cheapest aftermarket car battery I can find and install it first so that the newly installed battery explains the reason for a low start count in the ecu. After reading the jalopnik article, I will also completely remove my OCC. With the Damond OCC you do not cut up any OEM hoses so it will take no time at all to restore everything to stock. Alternatively, if I install a set of Boomba transmission cable bracket bushings, the battery is required to be removed and that can always explain the low start count. Perhaps it's worth just doing the bushings to have them in there in the event of a future visit to the dealer. They are only $28, plus shipping.
I wouldn't even buy a new battery. My excuse is usually that my nav screen wasn't syncing so I disconnected the battery for a few minutes to reset the system or something along those lines. They shouldn't press too hard in my experience, but if buying a battery is the route you want to go, its certainly a good one!
I wouldn't even buy a new battery. My excuse is usually that my nav screen wasn't syncing so I disconnected the battery for a few minutes to reset the system or something along those lines. They shouldn't press too hard in my experience, but if buying a battery is the route you want to go, its certainly a good one!
The only thing an OCC can do is clog the pcv line, slim chance in hell or some dummy does not drain it, no big deal if the 1 in a million happens. It would be a far stretch to deny any warranty claim due to an OCC. They are not saying the warranty will be denied for an OCC, they are using it as a visual clue the car may be modified elsewhere....like a tune! I have the MP-215 so they know my car has been modified, it shows online the MP-215 is installed. I feel sure when you reflash it the ECU shows it has been reflashed......has zero to do with ignition cycles.
Agreed with the previous comments. They can't tell if you've tuned the car if you unpair it first, only that it's been reset recently.
When I took my Focus ST in for repair they asked about the reflash and I said "my mechanic reset the computer thing to try and clear the error code, wuts a tuner?" Then the service tech proceeded to explain to me what tuning was and I said it sounded interesting, and that I should have my car tuned.
Anyway, they could not figure out how to turn off the CEL so the whole ECU was replaced under warranty. They sent the ECU back to Ford to figure out what was wrong and that was the last I've heard of it.
Also, if you keep the tune on and they update the software not knowing the car is tuned, it could potentially brick your ECU. So always unpair it anytime you take it to a dealer. Even if it's for something unrelated, since they might update the ECU out of courtesy.
When I took my Focus ST in for repair they asked about the reflash and I said "my mechanic reset the computer thing to try and clear the error code, wuts a tuner?" Then the service tech proceeded to explain to me what tuning was and I said it sounded interesting, and that I should have my car tuned.
Anyway, they could not figure out how to turn off the CEL so the whole ECU was replaced under warranty. They sent the ECU back to Ford to figure out what was wrong and that was the last I've heard of it.
Also, if you keep the tune on and they update the software not knowing the car is tuned, it could potentially brick your ECU. So always unpair it anytime you take it to a dealer. Even if it's for something unrelated, since they might update the ECU out of courtesy.
If Ford were *truly* interested in designing a system that detects tampering, they wouldn't do it with very simple reset counter.
The fact is, they didn't design the system to be tamper resistant or with any special purpose tamper indicator.
Combining tamper-proof single write media {click link here} (used only for storing checksums and boot ROM) plus TPM technology {link}, would leave a trail for techs to follow. It wouldn't be designed with intention of preventing modification, only leaving a trail to follow back on.
It would be like the cat & mouse games that the inkjet printer and aftermarket cartridge manufacturers play except, for the complication of the ECU having to intercommunicate with a many different modules instead of just one.
The fact is, they didn't design the system to be tamper resistant or with any special purpose tamper indicator.
Combining tamper-proof single write media {click link here} (used only for storing checksums and boot ROM) plus TPM technology {link}, would leave a trail for techs to follow. It wouldn't be designed with intention of preventing modification, only leaving a trail to follow back on.
It would be like the cat & mouse games that the inkjet printer and aftermarket cartridge manufacturers play except, for the complication of the ECU having to intercommunicate with a many different modules instead of just one.
Are we SURE that this IDS system counts a battery disconnect as an actual re-flash, and does not store a permanent record of any actual re-flashes somewhere?
If so, one could also claim that they had to remove the battery in order to adjust their shift cable themselves, since it was getting wonky, or whatever.
If so, one could also claim that they had to remove the battery in order to adjust their shift cable themselves, since it was getting wonky, or whatever.
O my favorite flowchart, that Ford warranty denial crap
I loved the way they worded it, so many high level and open ended terms ... it is a legalese wet dream.
I remember when that came out , it was around the time the Coyotes were coming into circulation back in late 2010/early 2011. Maybe because bolt on mods/tunes actually would do ‘something’ on the DOHC TiVCT rather than ‘nothing’ like on all previous Mustang engines so they had to cover their ass.
I loved the way they worded it, so many high level and open ended terms ... it is a legalese wet dream.
I remember when that came out , it was around the time the Coyotes were coming into circulation back in late 2010/early 2011. Maybe because bolt on mods/tunes actually would do ‘something’ on the DOHC TiVCT rather than ‘nothing’ like on all previous Mustang engines so they had to cover their ass.
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